Mizahar


http://www.mizahar.com/forums/blog/Hex/a_call_for_present_tense_storytelling_b-86.html
Author:  Hex [ January 9th, 2010, 12:27 am ]
Blog Subject:  A call for present tense storytelling
For the sake of becoming immersed in the world of Mizahar, I instinctively have urges to talk about what I'm describing as if it were part of my own world and that I am experiencing the realities of that world in the present- or perhaps I'm attempting to integrate myself in the miz world itself. As I build Endrykas description I feel this urge for present tense the most. It excites me to write like this because I get an amazing rush of having experienced it as much as my character themselves would experience it being there. The best part about enjoying creative writing for me has been knowing that this will someday be the inspirational soil that other player characters will sprout from to create their own unique branches of stories and miz world events.

<3


Replies
Author:  Kamalia Timandre [ January 9th, 2010, 5:56 am ]
I remember that in one of the live online roleplays that I joined, we had to write in present tense. Present draws the writer to the "now" and makes you feel that you're actually present in that situation! XD
Author:  Tarot [ January 9th, 2010, 9:00 am ]
Tenses are one of the few RPing topics I really feel strongly about, so please don't be upset by the intensity of this comment. Personally, I hate present tense. :p I might overlook it in a location post, but an actual thread modded in the present tense makes me shudder. To me it smells of sloppy D&D session transcripts, and I find it annoying and distracting, not to mention it could inspire someone to start using such abominations as first/second person narration.

If you really go for present tense in Endrykas, I hope you will conform to the PCs' tense instead of expecting the other way around, as that would be a deal breaker for me (and I absolutely want to thread with you as Akela!) and, I suspect, quite a few others of the past tense school. :)
Author:  Gossamer [ January 9th, 2010, 10:30 am ]
I have to second Tarot's thoughts, and let me add that when the Storyteller's Guide comes out, it will read under a section called "Tense" that Mizahar is a game played in third-person, past-tense, omniscient narrator mode. And like Tarot said, please don't be offended by my saying this. It is not being said to hurt anyone's feelings.

Now, that being said, give me a chance to outline why this is so.

Past tense offers far more tools than present tense. With Past tense you can beautifully layer a story with flashbacks, narrative interjections, sweeping landscapes, without switching out of present tense to go to past tense. With present tense, you have VERY AWKWARD transitions which you are forced to make in order to go on an exposition of narrative or for characters to exchange dialog. So already you have strikes against it.

Present tense is often riddled with grammatical errors, awkward wording, weird transitions, and it doesn't read 'right' in my mind. I consider it gimmicky and find it really cheapens my reading experience. In fact, that is so much so that I usually stop reading present tense stuff because I find the grammatical tense errors (since often present tense writers don't proof or catch their tense switches midstream) soooo distracting that its not worth my time to finish reading. Present tense works well for really small choppy things, but when you want an epic, sweeping, panoramic stories - stick to third person omniscient.

Why? Wikipedia has a good answer for that.

This is a tale told from the point of view of a storyteller who plays no part in the story but knows all the facts, including the characters' thoughts. It sometimes even takes a subjective approach. One advantage of omniscience is that this mode enhances the sense of objective reliability (i.e. truthfulness) of the plot. The third-person omniscient narrator is the most reliable narrator, or in any case, the narrator least capable of being unreliable—although the omniscient narrator can have its own personality, offering judgments and opinions on the behavior of the characters.

In addition to reinforcing the sense of the narrator as reliable (and thus of the story as true), the main advantage of this mode is that it is eminently suited to telling huge, sweeping, epic stories, and/or complicated stories involving numerous characters.


And I don't know about you... but I write here on Mizahar for the epic sweepting tales... not the constant bombardment of "I did this. I said that. I went there. I squatted here." It just gets.... ugh! Ugh is a great word for present tense for me.

Also when your reading present tense as a reader, it has a different sometimes oddball rhythum. It's staccato. It makes readers more aware of structure and language which is a huge hindrance, because language mistakes under those circumstances are glaring.... I can't say that enough. I have two writing guides in my hand right now, and oddly enough, both describe present tense as a novel or story form of tense 'wearying' to read.

I know you write for yourself. That's true. But the fact is Present Tense is a departure from the beaten path. Some people will love it cause its cool and different. Others will hate it because it calls attention to itself and seems to shout "Look at me. I'm trying to be different - maybe too hard!". I know its to each their own....

Right now, I'm writing with a PC as a PC that routinely switches tenses midstream. He's a fabulous writer and I really adore his effort and his content, but when he keeps mixing and matching present and past tense, it distracts from even the most artfully posted episode.

So, hopefully you can see why I go UGH about Present Tense. And you can see why Mizahar has been designed to be and is definitely third person omniscient and always will be.

edit: for grammatical errors... its 2:30 am!
Author:  Gillar [ January 9th, 2010, 12:29 pm ]
While there are definitely uses for writing in the present tense, there are also many difficulties in using it for writing in this particular medium. For one, it is easy to slip back and forth between present and past which, as Goss mentioned causes mistakes in grammar usage to stand out more. I won't even get into the problems that occur when one unknowingly mixes the various types of present tense. Also, from a moderating perspective, I am really having a hard time trying to fathom how one would mod in present tense and have it make sense to those they are modding. Having been an English Major, I can't help but say how difficult writing in present tense is especially when thinking of moderating with it since you would inevitably have to swap out different tenses. Goss and Tarot laid out many of my further thoughts on the subject rather rather well so I don't want to repeat everything they already pointed out.

I will say that I agree completely that present tense and first person point-of-view can express action and pull a person into the character however I feel that at least here on Mizahar, it is best used by a player writing from the perspective of their character. Even then however, one must be sure to remain true to the usage of present tense and be careful with their grammar otherwise it does get very difficult to read.

I find present tense as well as first-person best used in character journals or when a character is reading something that is written by another person writing in first-person (a character reading an NPC journal entry).
Author:  Hex [ January 9th, 2010, 6:31 pm ]
Thank you for all the comments! I was thrilled (and far from offended) to see you all taking the time to put your two cents in! Just wonderful :)

I think where I most feel like using present tense is when describing the general events of a city. so while I make Endrykas, I feel like talking about the trade routes and locations as if they are standing there today somewhere in the parallel universe of my imagination. Example: "Desertbreds are routinely transported between Yahebah and Endrykas". Something simple like that. Do I risk confusing the reader when I am doing location descriptions? I definately find it far too difficult to rp in present tense, and have always stuck to past tense because of that.

Thoughts?
Author:  Malia [ January 9th, 2010, 6:43 pm ]
In RP, I very much second the common opinion that present tense just doesn't look good. RPGs are about epic tales that include many different characters and aspects which would be very difficult to write out in present tense. As a writer, I only use it when I want to write a story that is highly subjective and takes place more in the protagonist's mind than anywhere else.

However, I think that it's okay to describe locations in present tense. As you said, they feel more alive and 'present' when described this way. But in threads I usually switch to past because it's rping and it sounds better. :)
Author:  Sorian [ January 9th, 2010, 9:25 pm ]
I like writing in past tense much better. It gives me the feeling that I am actually writing something more than an RP, maybe a novel or something like that. Writing in present tense tends to get sketchy when used extensively, especially when you're someone with a taste for history. Personally it just simply gets me out of my groove.
Author:  Calovan [ January 9th, 2010, 10:19 pm ]
Having been on numerous RP sites before, I'll say that I find present-tense RP to be... Well, I think it is lackluster. Very boring, you see. However, as for your question regarding descriptions, just use the ol' noodle to figure it out.
I, myself, use the past tense for everything in an RP, and always have. I suppose that it's a matter of taste, but I make no distinctions on who to roleplay with based simply off of their tense choice.
Rather, I like to try and ease the others in past tense if they use something other than that particular wording.
You know, though, that there is a tense far worse than present for being irritating.
Past Progressive. Examples: "Jim would go over to the door." "Sally would stand on her chair." "Bland character would perform some inane action to bore, confuse, and frustrate the reader to tears."
So long as we keep out of that territory, I'm fine.
Author:  Nya Winters [ January 10th, 2010, 1:00 pm ]
This was a great blog debate. I liked reading it and hearing all the opinions.
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