Jerky Hut

[Viper]

Jerky Hut (Name will prolly be changed later)
Business Type: Food
Items Sold:
Jerky - 7 GM lb.
Base Income: 3,325 GM/day (Before you die from shock...or laughter , let me explain why. lol Bare with me though, you wanted details. So it's a bit of a long read to explain all the details. )

1st - Expense / Profit Report

700 lb. Cow - 15 GM each (Will process 7 cows a day, 5 days a week)

Cow breakdown:
140 lbs. (70 lbs usable jerky meat after drying) - 14 lbs. Prime Meat / 56 lbs. Regular Meat
70 lbs. organ meat, to be sold as sausage meat (the least valuable thing I could find on the list so I wasn't making a killing off everything. )
70 lbs. tallow = 7 GM total worth
1 hide = 1-2 GM total worth

Plan for Unusable (for jerky) Meat:
10 lbs. of organ meat to be traded for payment of butcher services (1 days worth). This translates into 20 GM for the butcher who normally, at his skill rank (level 2-3) would only get 6-14 GM a day. A roughly 43-333% increase over base pay shown in income listing.

Remaining organ meat, tallow, and hide to be sold for 65 GM. All prices referenced either in the price list or in the Butcher of Alban sell section. I believe this price is actually at a slight loss to Viper by a few gold mizas. Reason for this was to seal the deal with the butcher, so he makes even more profit for the little bit of extra work he has to put into selling the other items.

65 GM Breakdown:
15 GM - Cook (level 2-3 cook usually makes 4-9 GM a day, or 66-325% increase over base pay mentioned in the income section of the price list)
50 GM - Ingredients

Total Expenses - 100 GM
Total actual out of pocket expenses - 15 GM

Beef Jerky sells for 7 GM a lb. (price referenced in price list) The cow has 70 lbs worth of usable jerky meat. Was just going to keep it at 7GM for the total weight because I didn't want to worry about differentiating between the better quality meat and the regular meat. The lost money could also average out portions of jerky he wouldn't be able to sell and forced to sell to the Butcher of Alban shop at a slightly lower rate. Basically, just went for simplicity.

Gross Income - 490 GM per cow processed
Total income after expenses - 475 GM per cow processed

2nd - Employees

Viper will basically have none for now, save for a salesperson. He will instead rely on the businesses already within Syliras for the task of preparing and cooking the jerky. It will make the Knights happy their businesses are getting more business, and relieves Viper of having to have the skill to do everything himself. I did not see a saleperson in the job list, so to determine a payscale, I was going to base the pay off of clerk (3GM a day) / shopkeeper (4 GM a day). I planned to pay 5 GM a day to be safe.

3rd - Supply and Demand

Supply should not be an issue. Syliras' primary export is meat and foodstuffs. It has huge farmlands for the sole production of cattle and other crop based foods. They even supply Zeltiva with food. So supply should not be an issue for a city of 50,000 residents who's primary economy is based off food production. Put another way, if every resident in Syliras has cow meat of some kind in the amount of only 1 lb per day, for only 3 days a week. Syliras would be processing 200 cows per day, 5 days a week. So Viper's order of cows, would only be a 3.5% increase in what they already produce. Hardly straining on an area built around this type of production.

Demand. This is actually the main reason (outside of the simple fact it costs almost nothing to get started but makes huge returns) why I do not believe Viper's business simply falls under shopkeeper, and thus that pay scale. Viper does not plan to sell hid jerky to the general public. Instead he means to sell it in bulk style orders for to sailors. People who need to be able to store food for long periods of time without the threat of it spoiling. Jerky is light weight, high in energy, and can easily be stored for long periods of time. All things extremely attractive to ship captains looking to resupply for their long voyages.

As for the captains and their order amounts. I'd say look at it this way. A small ship with say a crew of 20 men on a 10 day journey. If they each got just 1 lb a day (which would basically be just snacking type food at that small amount) would still require 200 lbs, just to make it one way. 400 lbs if they want enough for the return trip. And that is just a single small vessel. I'd imagine a port like Syliras would have a dozen or more ships in and out of there every day. At that rate, Viper's salesperson would only have to be 20% successful in his sales to make his 1,000 lbs sales goal per day. Even as low as only 8% succesful, if the vessel was preparing for a longer range journey to say Riverfall. In which case the order would be double, possibly triple the example for just a single ship. And again, if he didn't sell it all, what was left he could still sell to the previously mentioned shop Butcher of Alban as a backup plan. Even though it is for slightly less mizas. But in all honestly. 1,000 lbs. (roughly) of jerky a day, is realistically no where near enough for the demand that could come from this way of selling it.

Assets:
2 Wagons
2 Mules
Jerky
1 Salesperson

Debt: 500 GM (750 GM after interest!) Owed to Noble Kale Belmont

I hope this meets with your approval. Looking forward to hearing from you soon!

[Gossamer]

Question. How do you account for the weight difference in raw meat verses jerky? You state a cow has 140 lbs of useable jerky meat but...jerked meat is dehydrates so.You won't get 140 lbs of jerky from that. You would be lucky to get 10% that weight or 14 lbs. Your business model seems very off due to that fact. Also Ive butchered cows. Seven in one day for one unskilled person would be near impossible.

[Viper]

I was basing that weight off the information posted under the section for cattle. But you are correct. I did not account for water weight which would be lost. After doing a bit of research, I found that beef specifically loses half its weight during the drying process. So I will adjust the numbers accordingly to 70 lbs of jerky per cow. Or in other words, 490 GM each and half of what I stated per day. My apologies for missing that detail. Will adjust that in a couple minutes after I get home.

As for the labor, you're once again correct. I had planned to hire one person per cow per day. And with the amount I was paying, I expect them to be skilled, not unskilled.

(original proposal now edited to reflect the changes discussed)

[Gossamer]

Your income is calculated by your primary skill used and its level not by estimated sales. Have you read the buisness plan samples carefully? What skill are you using and what level are you at?

[Viper]

Oh no I understand that. Trust me, I read every one of the examples looking for something that would fit my model. But that formats do not fit this business model. The sample plans are for proposals which have regular store fronts that sell to the public. here there is no store, and it's bulk sales to businesses. not to mention sales are basically guarenteed. they are not not estimated.

with now only 500 lbs (roughly) to sell. it should be extremely easy to sell to sailors considering the saleperson employee would only need a 4-10% success rate to get rid of all the jerky. and if some doesn't get sold, Butcher of Alban shop buys whatever anyone brings in. so even as an unskilled salesperson. 1 contract a day is extremely reasonable, bordering downright pathetic if he/she couldn't do it.

thus considering the profit margin. the current business sample plans do not fit this at all...the numbers make it where following the samples means that thousands of mizas basically just disappear for some unknown reason. in fact to follow the samples would mean viper would only be selling at most what? a dozen lbs of jerky? a scenario that simply wouldn't happen whilst selling in bulk.

Edit: Also, Viper is merely fronting money to buy supplies and transport things around. he is hiring the "skill" required for this from the local businesses, and straight up taking an employee for the sales portion. So basically this is a question of mathmatics, not skill levels.

[Gillar]

To start, all business sheets must fit the sample templates provided in the main Business Sheet forum. I allow some small amount of variation from said templates to help flesh out a business sheet or help it fit in better but in the end, all plans follow a similar format. Too much detail can be cumbersome and overly complicated. If your business idea doesn't seem to fit into the template, this is the kind of thread where we work together to make it fit. Now, that said, while I admire your attention to detail and desire to design a well-thought-out business, there is no way I will ever approve 3,325 GM/day no matter how it is explained and justified. Our system for income, businesses and related material can be found in the Income section of the Price List. If you are looking to be some sort of meat broker or commercial meat distributor, we don't really have that sort of thing on Mizahar. Most people either butcher their own meat or find one in the city to do it for them (a butcher). Any large organizations such as the Knighthood would likely have their own butchers or contracted farms that provide them with any food they may need, meat or otherwise. If you were looking to actually do the job of a butcher that operates from a wagon (thus eliminating the need for a traditional shop), that is doable and can fit into our existing templates. A Butcher Shop Out of a Wagon Business Type: Goods and Service Goods and Services Offered: * Different animal parts listed here with prices * Butchering service price listed here Base Income: Butcher 4 gm/day Food Preservation would be the primary skill for this sort of job and it is the skill that modifiers to income are based on. Skill Bonus: The higher the level of Food Preservation, the higher the potential bonus to income. Sale's Bonus: This bonus applies to those who own and operate their own business and who work as an integral part of the operation. Your character would take part in the actual butchering and preparation of meat in order to gain this bonus in this kind of work. Total Income: This would be figured by taking the base 4 gm / day and modifying it based on skill level and any other factors figured into the sales bonus listing. If you have an assistant who aids in working with the meat and/or driving the wagon, their daily income is subtracted from your modified base income to get the total income. Assets: Anything used in the operation of the business is listed here. Wagons, horses, initial purchase of cows if meat is to be kept on hand, tools/utensils, etc., are all listed here. Any goods offered in the price list also get listed here as they are considered assets. Debt: If you owe anything to loans taken out to purchase the business and/or related assets, they are listed here along with the cost. Mizahar operates on a Skill-Based economic system as far as jobs and businesses are concerned. I designed it the way to avoid businesses becoming simple "cash-cows" for characters to get rich off of. Also, it requires characters to actually be involved with their jobs or owned businesses and possess relevant skills, lore and background. While your character does possess some skills and lore that would aid in food preservation such as hunting and fishing (you don't currently possess food preservation as a skill), they are quite low and the rest of the character skills seem to fit more with a novice hunter/survivalist than they do with mobile butcher shop. While some businesses can be operated with skills such as Persuasion, Negotiation, Leadership, they usually include running a tavern or a general store or trader; something that doesn't require a specific professional crafting skill. If your running an operation that is basically a butcher, you really need to have the related skill since the simple people of Mizahar aren't likely to buy meat from some guy on the street who has no real idea about what he is selling out of the back of his wagon (unless your a really good conman). Basically, admittedly I could be wrong, but it at least appears that your are trying to create one of those "cash-cows" I mentioned earlier but in a rather extreme form. From what I see of your character, this sort of business (the format and lack of established template use aside) does not fit the character's personality, skills or overall background and does not fall into the type of businesses that people usually create and operate on Mizahar. If you wished to create and operate a business that is more fitting for your character and fits with the established templates and game environment, I would be happy to help get a business sheet developed. I also suggest contacting your locale storyteller for some ideas of types of businesses that would fit your character and the city if you are truly wishing to go down the road of a business owner.

[Viper]

Weel, if this is the stance you're going to take, I can only come up with one more possibility that should keep everyone happy. A way that will satisfy both your economy system as you described it, as well as allow me to do what I've been working so hard to try and do with my character.

Ok first, I'd like to say I appreciate how you work hard to keep everything orderly and making sense. It does drive me a little nuts too when people do off the wall stuff that doesn't make sense. But this actually brings me to some of the things you mentioned in your post.

You had a concern about this business not fitting Viper. So I'd like to address that. Viper's mother actually made jerky for him and the family back when he was younger. So it's something that he enjoys. He actually got the idea of this wild eating some crude jerky, he himself had made after a hunt. Both this and the fact that he had an interest in possibly making jerky as a business have been mentioned a couple times in previous threads. I was only now getting around to creating it. But it still fits his background quite easily.

You also mentioned you created the system so people don't just make cash-cow businesses and actually have a part in the businesses. Again two things I am extremely grateful for. Viper is not in this for the money believe it or not, and his responsibilities in the business, of which he would play an active role also lend themselves nicely to his current interests. Let me explain.

How this works with Viper's personality:

He wants to open a business, as lately he has been at a loss as to what to do with his life. He was also trying to set himself to be able to offer a possible love interest more than just himself. Now with that said, he admittedly as you pointed out, does not have the complete skill list to pull off this venture. That's why he was hiring the skill he lacked. He also does not like the idea of being cooped up in some store trying to sell to the public. What the business did require that he didn't mind doing, and in fact enjoyed, was transporting everything around to where it needed to go.

It would keep him out of an office or stuffy store, and allow him to keep riding as he transported the supplies and jerky around. Besides these things, one of Endrykas primary exports is dried meats. So it would be totally plausible for Vipe to conjour this idea up since really it is apart of his people's cultural exports anyway.

Higher goals:

Viper only meant to keep the current set up long enough for him to be able to afford the construction costs of his very own jerky operation. basically, he was going to go claim land just outside of Syliras' domain and the knightly owned lands. (roughly a days walk away from the city along the east kabrin road toward zeltiva) There he would build a small village and actually hire on butchers and chefs to be his actual employees. I have talked with Verilian about this idea, and he agrees that it is possible. Though he did warn me, he would make it difficult to accomplish. lol I was actually glad to hear that. I do so love a good challenge.

How this could work for both sides:

Now you have stated salary is based on skills and lore. I have pointed out, that while this current system in place is for almost all scenarios, a fantastic way of doing things. It doesn't lend itself to what I wish to do. And in fact doesn't explain where thousands of mizas go. Since you mentioned you would be willing to work with me if I could do this in compliance with "regular" ways of doing a business, how about a compromise?  Now, I would be totally willing to say viper does this business and takes on the role of a trader. With this, he could use the skills he currently posses to do this business. It would also allow him to have a set salary per the rules and current system as it is set up, thus making sure viper does not become rich.

The compromise is this. The funds that this business would generate (as shown before) would all be set aside for the construction of Viper's more permanent jerky operation that he wants to set up on unclaimed lands. With everything built, Viper would need a rather large amount of employees to run everything, not mention manpower to guard it all. All if these salaries and village maintenance would suck up the vast majority of the profits. I'll make sure of that. Viper will still just have his salary as a trader. And thus the balance of money earned goes right back to normal! And the entire time, Viper does not have access to any of these monies, except to build what has been mentioned. That would be a stipulation to the compromise.

How this benefits Viper:

Viper is really not a city guy as you mentioned. This would allow him to have a home and business outside the city where he is more comfortable. He would get to travel back and forth to Syliras to help guard the convoys. (very much his element) Also another idea I was tinkering with was, he would begin to travel around to look for exotic herbs to bring back to his village so as to start making different flavors of jerky. He would also now own something and have complete control over it's operation. His more independent nature would not be able to handle a situation where he opened a place within Syliras just to become an employee of the knights, since they own everything within their domain. That's why he isn't building anything in Syliras. And instead simply utilizing the services there until he can afford to build his operation on his own land.

How this benefits Mizahar:

It grants players a unique opportunity to do something different. As you mentioned before this is really not done. I can't tell you how many PC's have responded so enthusiastically to the simple idea of the adventures trying to create a village in the hostile wilds of Sylira, and how fun they would be. Wouldn't you be excited if you got to have your character be apart of the construction process of a new location instead of just saying "Poof! Here is a new fully developed city?" (Not saying those aren't good though )

Concerns about knights already having things set up:

I have actually spoken to Acco extensively on this. Although, it's something we would still need to flush out, details wise, he said he liked the idea of Vipe providing a jerky ration for the knights. Because it's different and new.

Now as this has become much more long winded than I ever intended this to be. lol I will leave it at that. I look forward to hearing from you soon. I hope you find this to be a fair compromise. I really do wish to follow the ways you have set out after all as I enjoy the world you guys have created immensely!

Best Regards,
Vipe

[Gillar]

As I said before, while I admire the thought and detail you've put into this whole idea, I'm not going to approve it unless it fully complies with the established system for creating/starting businesses and there will be no compromise in regards to income/wages. In regards to the concept of characters being an integral part of the construction process of new locations, that is already possible. The first thing that comes to mind is Gossamer's Syka Quest which involves, in part, a group of characters coming together to establish a new settlement in the wilds of Mizahar. It allows characters to use known skills while learning new ones needed to not only survive but also grow and build in order to create a new home from which to live, work and explore. Outside of that, characters can indeed build and create and ultimately establish the foundation of new locations outside of cities already. This involves thread-work where one would lay claim to otherwise unclaimed land. The cost of acquiring such land is the thread-work needed to do it. Involved in this is that they would need to prepare and protect that land as they work toward building whatever they are looking to build. With the appropriate skills, mundane or magical, they can build structures and related construction elements that form the foundation of the new location. NPCs can play a big role in this as well as one does the thread-work to acquire said NPCs. Upkeep for the NPCs does cost mizas, however, again through thread-work, one can establish things such as small personal farms (gardens, livestock, etc.) for example to help cover some of the NPC upkeep that would otherwise cost cold hard mizas. Notice the emphasis on thread-work. Now, back to the idea of supplying meat to the Knights. A character with no related skills to this venture and even one with L1 or L2 related skills, will not be able to operate such an industry of the scale you are talking. They simply don't have the skill to do it. In order to afford to pay all of the wages of the numerous employees needed to perform such a task, one needs to have related skills at least at an L3 with L4 being the better way to go as it offers the character thousands of mizas per season to work with. In order to simply manage and facilitate such a venture, you would need Leadership as that is skill used for figuring income for businesses that don't use specific trade skills in their operation. To do something as great as supplying the majority of the meat to the Knighthood, you need a lot of leadership, a lot of NPCs and a lot of thread-work establishing such a thing (I mean A LOT of thread-work, not just a handful of 5-post, couple paragraph threads). It's not something I will ever approve with little to no thread-work and as a part of an initial business start-up request. You would have to start out by gaining some amount of leadership skill while also doing the thread-work to move your character to a point where it makes sense for them to start working toward such a business. The business, when it is finally established, will be small. It would likely be small-scale butchering and small-scale sales to local persons (just like any other starting business). As you do job threads and gain seasonal xp, your leadership skill would increase and with each passing thread and each passing season, you get closer to increasing overall skill levels from L1 to L2 to L3 and finally to L4. During that time, you acquire mizas, spend some to expand and improve your overall business and save the rest. Maybe you do individual threads related to your business that involve special deals (the scale of which would be tied to the amount of thread-work you put in) whereby you gain even more side money. Perhaps you bring on NPC or PC employees to help with the growing business. Eventually, you gain a level of skill and a strong list of related threads that allow you the experience, the contacts, the funds and the skill needed to manage a small-scale industry such as providing the majority of the meat needs of the Knighthood. A side note, there aren't any small villages around that you can travel to in order to acquire unique flavors and recipes and travel to other cities can take many seasons and without the right skill and resources, would leave you likely dead. Ultimately however, speaking only of top income for someone operating a business that provides meat to others (mizas gained in separate threads including job-threads or any other side threads where mizas are gained not included), you would bring in 11,040 gm per year or 2,760 gm per season before NPC wages are taken. This is based off of 4 gm base income plus 1 gm for being a business owner further modified by skill level. I've mentioned a few paragraphs up the general path you would need to take to achieve what you are wanting. It is no more or no less than I would require of any other character wishing to engage in large scale business/industry. So if you wish to pursue this while working within the structure of the system that currently exists and keeping in mind what the path I mentioned, you have my blessings and support.

[Viper]

Dear Gillar,

1. I will have 1 employee (salesperson), not an army of workers. At least at first until my skills in those areas are built up as you said.
2. I have no problem writing threads of this whole thing as it unfolds. I love to write...it's why I believe any of us are here. I believe I mentioned this as I said I looked forward to adventures of just building everything up more so than the actual final result. I was just not going to write all that without first having obtained permission as per the rules.
3. The Knights idea was meant for a later date, after he had established his business, skills, and reputation within the city...
4. Why I am required to sell to the general public and not commercially (like to ship owners) still baffles me. I see no rule anywhere requiring such.
5. This business complies with all rules. With respect, the only real snag is it makes to much money for your comfort level due to the price you yourselves as the founders placed on the item in question.
6. In regards to skills. You have approved business plans with multiple employees up to 8 people from what I have seen with little to zero XP in business, leadership, or any skill mentioned for shop owners. So forgive me when I fail to see the equality there when considering to start, I will again have only one employee.
7. If scale is the issue, I can have him prepare just a single cow a day to start. But I believe you would still find the income this would create as laid out by your price list to be too much.
8. Again in regards to skill. I don't understand why Viper wanting to pay well for businesses to perform the services they themselves offer to everyone would require leadership or business savvy. He's not asking them to go in business with him. Just availing himself of the service they already provide.

I will say I appreciate the time you have spent replying to this request. It is appreciated. As is the path to be able to sort of create what I was looking for. Albeit not fully mine as I wanted, and much less refined or secured. But I think I will simply abandon this effort to create something new and different.

Upon further inspection, the system that has been set up makes it inherently impossible for anyone here to make anything grander than basic. Unless they funnel themselves to the few professions that pay exceptionally well. I also see a rule that says you can only have one business. So no real way to have multiple forms of steady income to bump up our lot in life. Only side stuff that is one time things. Which is curious since NPC's are actually as noted as having hands in multiple things. Thus why they become wealthy. But this is denied us PC's. Which is odd, since a business person with master in that would not only be very capable of such feats as multiple businesses. But would strive to do so.

And with the severe income restrictions, nobody will ever make enough money to be able to afford the employees required of bigger business. Even with skills built up. Unless as previously mentioned, they go to the couple professions that do pay well to start with. Which means only certain types of characters can benefit from this.

The world itself has also been made to be so incredibly hostile, that to build in the wild would practically require a small army simply to guard it. This would not have been a problem, except we are not allowed to make the money required for such an endeavour. Thus stifling anything new and forcing us to only play within the confines of what has already been created. And only ever as middle class at best.

With all this said, I still wish to convey that the locations currently here are awesome. The amount of lore present is quite impressive. I am just very disappointed in the lack of flexibility here for new ideas that don't fit within what has already been done countless times. This post however, was not meant as an insult in any way, shape, or form. So I hope it is not taken as anything but a sincere perspective on what is laid out. And again, this whole thing was designed to follow the rules. It's why I was so detailed in the first place. But again, as I seem to have failed to explain this properly, I shall simply acquiesce. An argument is not something I had wished this to devolve too anyway. So with that, thanks again for your time. As always, I hope you have a great day!

Best Regards,
Viper