[Discussion] Para-Elements

[Akuaysun]

At the thoughts of the group, and prompting of Tarot, I have posted this discussion so that everyone can post their particular views on the elements and Para-elements. These are my outlooks on the elements. I encourage everyone else to contribute.

Fire - Flame
Water - Water
Air - Wind
Earth - Rock, Soil, Etc.

Two elements are fairly easy,

Fire + Water = Steam or Fog
Fire + Earth = Lava
Fire + Air = Lightning
Water + Air = Ice, waterspouts
Water + Earth = Mud
Air + Earth = Sand

Now of coarse you could throw in a third element for some wicked stuff.

Fire + Air + Earth = Pyroclastic Cloud
Fire + Air + Water= Mass Storm
Fire + Earth + Water = Crystal
Earth + Water + Air = Vegitation

And Finally for all four you could pretty much create anything within the scope of the skill...

What do you guys and gals think?


UPDATED LIST AT THREADS END... UNDERLINED PORTIONS REMOVED...

[Syfec Morbus]

As you know, I see the water aspect as encompassing Ice, since ice is basically water, just in a solid state. Then I would see Water+Air as Storms, Ice storms, tsunamis(for the more powerful mage). (Disclaimer: This might jsut be because I want to use ice)

Air + Earth could be used to create sand storms I guess that's not really an element as it is a use.

[Voreasos Alisier]

Fire + Earth = Lava

So if we add air to that we could form lava balls and I do see ice with water. I feel that a lot of ideas can be formed and more open then just what the list says and it is a good list.


Some forms of spells I see more then just magic, such as Air + Earth that can cause sandstorms, send flying small rocks around and add fire then form a glass storm from heated sand and such.

[Akuaysun]

Yes, of coarse you would always be able to form more then what the list entails but this is focusing primarily on Para elements, what elements you would form by combining the basics. Once we have this, we would in turn have a precedence for what level you would need to be in order to cast spells like ice storm or glass shard etc. etc.

For example, with an ice storm, if you can create ice just by using water you could cast this spell at level one, simply by pushing your res into the atmosphere, however if ice takes air + water you couldn’t cast it till level 2.

Personally I think water and air should be combined for ice. Mostly for the balance of power… Look at it this way, water has 3 basic forms, Solid, Liquid and Gas. Liquid is its normal state, to get ice you have to chill it, and to get steam you have to heat it. I think that it is reasonable to say in order to use the element in these forms you would have to add something to it unless the natural environment provided it for you, IE your in the desert or up in the arctic.

As for adding air to fire and earth to create lava balls, yes that is basically what a Pyroclastic Cloud is... A giant furnace of fire, earth, and air.

[Chaelnomyl]

I would say in terms of ice, you would need air to chill it. While water inherently is what ice is made of, water is the liquid form and the way it becomes the solid is through temperature drops. What better way to drop a temperature than combine it with a cold breeze? Beginning level water based spells would be like isolated rain, perhaps if you put a lot of what you’re capable behind it, you’d have a torrential downpour of sorts, for a short amount of time.

I think what Akuaysun’s proposing here is the most likely: water alone = you have water, water + air = you have ice, water + fire = you have steam. You could also argue that depending on the air, water + air = fog. The only change in this that would make sense is his proposition that natural environment effects it – coldest area in the world, you use water, you’re gonna form ice just because of where its coming into existence, so to speak.

As a side note, fire earth water, I see as petrification / creation of something that is hardened. But that’s not a raw element, and I don’t think there is a raw element you could say for that one.

Air and Earth is a tough one, because while erosion kind of works, that's also done by rivers and so you could argue erosion with water and earth too? lol. I also don't know why you'd want to erode things. That one... is... There's no para element - it'd just be things like sandstorms, perhaps tornado (?), things like that.

[Syfec Morbus]

Yeah I just that chilling thing does make sense. You guys are right.

[Akuaysun]

Alrighty guys, I have also just come up with a couple ideas for the list.

Earth + Fire + Water = Crystal
Earth + Water + Air = Vegitation

Also I have changed electical storm to mass storm for Fire + Air + Water, as I think it balances with the others more, and at this point one would have a finer control on exactly what they could create with the combination of the three elements.

Tell me what you think, I am going to update the main list with them so everyone can see.

AJ

[Javen Vyta]

This *appears* to be a carbon of the AD&D 2nd Ed. para-elemental system. With a few exceptions - (i think...). I always thought it was a decent system, but one that didn't account for 'additional' forces well.

For instance, other elemental types, such as Time, Void, Magic were not well accounted for in that system.

A Time-Fire para-elemental will destroy you all!

[Javen Vyta]

And don't forget prismatic - the Air-Earth-Fire-Water elemental which is a scary, scary thing. Apparently when you combine all of the elements its big, angry, and destructive - just like a regular elemental, only utterly lacking in a sense of humor.

In the next discussion, we'll be talking about quasi-elements and medieval talk shows.

[Akuaysun]

Well I made up all of this off the top of my head; if it is in fact a copy then it was completely unintended. I have never played D&D in my life, just took what sounded logical through my knowledge of science and punched it up.

As for the Time, Void, etc stuff we don’t have to worry about that as this is strictly a guide for Reimancy. It’s just supposed to be a general overview of what dominate elements you would obtain through different combinations the original four. Which means we don’t have to worry about actual ‘elementals’ either as that would fall more to summoning.

I left the combination of all four intentionally black because a Reimancer of that level using all four elements would not be bound by anything, he could effectively create whatever he wanted.

Thanks for the input though!!