Question regarding Akalaks

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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gemini on March 28th, 2015, 9:12 am

The Akalak lore page gives the impression of their race as being the most suited for combat. It does however give little mention of their actual specific superiority aside from the physical and technical training they receive in regards to their expertise of combat.

Taking that into account, I was thinking whether a normal human (or any other race for that matter) would also be able to achieve the same level of proficiency in their martial arts since

1. Their physical excellence as written in the lore page, is (though dependent on genetics,) acquired through their effort put into training, a strict compliance in regards to diet and other things that a normal human could similarly be able to do. Thus if said normal human( or any other race for that matter) follows the Akalak tradition in training, diet and other training-related guidelines set, would he be on par with an Akalak in terms of physical capabilities?

2. Akalaks live longer lives and hence have more time to train, however the talent and potential that each individual shows will still differ. Say it takes some Akalak individual only a mere 15 years to master a weapon, while it would take others more than 20. Now say a normal human shows an overwhelming potential for training in the martial disciplines that Akalaks train in. Assuming he puts considerable effort into his training, and follows their diet and whatnot, would he able to achieve a success in said disciplines that even the Akalak would not be able to compare to?

Again, these two questions revolve around the core issue of Akalaks seemingly being able to obtain their prowess through hard training and discipline alone, as opposed to some natural inherited gift (aside from genetics).
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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gossamer on March 28th, 2015, 3:02 pm

Akalaks have superior body types for combat. They are enormously tall, heavily built fighters - think pro wrestlers - that enjoy far superior strength and fitness that comes easily to them over humans. Your pc, Gemini, for example, is 6'2", and 167 lbs. That's hellishly thin - almost waiflike - and tall. You couldn't, with that sort of physique, even think to pick up a sword and be swinging it around with any strength at all. You could fight daggers perhaps, but any armor would really weigh you down and you'd not have the ability to even remotely move fast because you'd lack any structure to be a warrior.

I'm not trying to be insulting. But someone who's 6'2" irl with that sort of thinness isn't going to be much good for any sort of labor unless your sole job was reaching the top shelf or walk around with a burning little torch lighting lamps after dark. I'm 6'4" irl and was at peak physical condition around 235lbs. At 225 I had a flat stomach, not much ass to speak of and looked ill as a woman.

It is what it is.

Now, while a human might master one or two weapons in their lifetime... the difference is that Akalak children are given weapons from birth and while a 15 yo might be just a little boy, he could be already on his way to mastering daggers, lakans, a bow, etc. An adult human in peak fighting condition will not have the longevity of an Akalak to master the dozens of weapons one can, not to mention all the other support skills. If you spend all your time training physically, then how in the world (unless you have a long life) do you learn combat tactics, interrogation, and all the other numerous numerous other support skills you'd need?

So do I personally think a human trained as an Akalak from childhood would be able to be better physically combat wise than an Akalak of roughly the equivalent age? No, not in any way shape or form. Sure there are rare individuals that can achieve great success in combat.. and I'm sure some of the Syliran Knights could give Akalaks a run for their money in terms of an outright fight... but not toe to toe and not without being truly gifted and putting in the thread work to do so.
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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gemini on March 28th, 2015, 3:15 pm

Here's the thing.

1. I never said that the question was for my character specifically. I had it in mind for an NPC, so please refrain from making such assumptions.

2. 6'1 and 167lbs is in no way "waiflike" as you suggest. Please actually look into things like this before you comment.



The welterweight division in UFC (the world's top-tier organization for mixed martial arts) is set at 170lbs (3lbs from 167), and this is the physique of world class fighters. These are people with pure muscle.

This is Jon Fitch at 6'0 and 170lbs

Image

I'm not trying to be insulting either, but your own anecdotes don't govern the rest of the world. It is what it is, but you're making way too many assumptions here that your sense of reality is completely different from what is actually true.
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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gossamer on March 28th, 2015, 3:50 pm

First off.... I said and I quote "Your pc, Gemini, for example, is 6'2", and 167 lbs. " Using him as an EXAMPLE. I was not MAKING ASSUMPTIONS so please don't take that attitude with me. It goes over about as well as profound cussing in a baptist church.

Second of all, this is Mizahar, a fantasy world and we have standards that aren't always on par to the real world. You asked the question. You got a response. If you want to debate that's more than fine. But if you knew all this already, I fail to see why you'd ask a question. I responded how I saw things. You have my thoughts. If you want to put up world champion hellishly rare superior individuals as a 'normal human' standards, you are more than welcome too. That doesn't make it the truth. In my eyes, these men aren't on par with Akalaks. As the creator of the Akalak race, that's my prerogative to maintain. You can have other ideas. That doesn't make your ideas correct.

I realize you are new here. Great. But honestly, is this sort of attitude a way to get really in good with the people that run a site as a hobby? Probably not. It will cause issues later if you want to be seen in an impartial light for something you might think is important... ie... joining staff, becoming a grader, or even getting a special permission race PC approved.

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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gemini on March 28th, 2015, 4:31 pm

Wow and to think I actually tried to send a PM to explain myself. Read through if you're bothered, don't if you're not.

Nevermind that.

I realize you are new here. Great. But honestly, is this sort of attitude a way to get really in good with the people that run a site as a hobby? Probably not. It will cause issues later if you want to be seen in an impartial light for something you might think is important... ie... joining staff, becoming a grader, or even getting a special permission race PC approved.


And a threat? Because I was able to justify a claim? Wow. I'm appalled, truly.

Like I said, I was asking questions because the lore page on Akalaks that I've been diligently reading, did not provide an answer to my question until you came and answered it in this post.

For the past few weeks all I've been doing is reading lore pages, since I realized that when a player doesn't read the lore and attempts to write things, they run into obstacles. What if this doesn't work? What if that doesn't apply to the situation? So, again, as I say, for the past few weeks I've been diligently reading lore pages and marking down questions. Some of the questions had been resolved, some haven't. I happen to ask a question regarding Akalaks since the answer to my particular questions...

1.Thus if said normal human( or any other race for that matter) follows the Akalak tradition in training, diet and other training-related guidelines set, would he be on par with an Akalak in terms of physical capabilities?

2.Assuming he puts considerable effort into his training, and follows their diet and whatnot, would he able to achieve a success in said disciplines that even the Akalak would not be able to compare to?


...were not evident in the lore page you created to provide information about the subject you were writing about, and then what happens is that

1. You answered my question

2. Then cut off most if not all all possibility for my character to be developed as a combatant of any sort with your assumptions based on personal perception and an anecdote

. Your pc, Gemini, for example, is 6'2", and 167 lbs. That's hellishly thin - almost waiflike - and tall. You couldn't, with that sort of physique, even think to pick up a sword and be swinging it around with any strength at all. You could fight daggers perhaps, but any armor would really weigh you down and you'd not have the ability to even remotely move fast because you'd lack any structure to be a warrior.

I'm not trying to be insulting. But someone who's 6'2" irl with that sort of thinness isn't going to be much good for any sort of labor unless your sole job was reaching the top shelf or walk around with a burning little torch lighting lamps after dark. I'm 6'4" irl and was at peak physical condition around 235lbs. At 225 I had a flat stomach, not much ass to speak of and looked ill as a woman


Which I completely managed to debunk, with evidence. It's not even just world-class top tier athletes who, despite being at the weight you called
"waifish"
and
"lack(ing) any structure to be a warrior."
, are in that weight range, but it's also considered within the normal weight range of the BMI index provided by the U.S. national heart, blood, and lung institute. Of course, all of these people would then be painstalkingly thin and unable to commit to any sort of physical activity then hmm?

Now to address all of the specific points you brought up.

1. I did ask the question, I did get the response. Correct. But then I never did know the answers to the questions I asked. You answered the questions, then you merely put up completely incorrect assumptions in a more than simply pompous attitude that I sought to dissuade with the same attitude, while providing evidence. Do note that your assumptions completely kills off multiple paths of development for my character, which I had actually put in quite a bit of time and effort to create and nurture.

2. The "truth" is that people who are 6'1 and 167lbs are more than capable of what you had previously assumed. What is "truth" for your Akalak race only you know. Others can only seek to read everything presented in the lore page, scour the forum for bits and pieces, and ask questions in hopes of legitimate answers (like what I was doing in the first place). Were the answers to what I asked provided in the lore page? I think not. You can maintain your idea that Akalaks are better, but where in hell did I even argue that humans were better? Rather than me making claims about the Akalak race, (which the original intention of this thread was for me to ask questions so that I don't unintentionally do so,) You started making claims on humans saying that someone with a height as such and weight as such will be completely incompetent in his ability to wield even a sword. I can't present counter-evidence to your claims about the Akalak, and I never intended to do so. I did however present fully justified counter-evidence to your claims about my PC.


3. Your featured character of the month is Fable, the AS of Alvadas which is the forum I happened to start off in. You are more than welcome to ask of him what type of attitude I displayed when I asked him anything. You are also more than welcome to read what little of my scrapbook I had written and see my attitude towards others for yourself. The problem really isn't what my attitude is in the first place, it's what type of attitude I'm facing.

If you can say things such as...

"I'm not trying to be insulting. But someone who's 6'2" irl with that sort of thinness isn't going to be much good for any sort of labor unless your sole job was reaching the top shelf or walk around with a burning little torch lighting lamps after dark. I'm 6'4" irl and was at peak physical condition around 235lbs. At 225 I had a flat stomach, not much ass to speak of and looked ill as a woman.

It is what it is."


...then have your claims be completely refuted with the exact same attitutude, only to respond with

"I realize you are new here. Great. But honestly, is this sort of attitude a way to get really in good with the people that run a site as a hobby? Probably not."


Then I really don't see the point in demonstrating the proper etiquette that I do when speaking to others. Fact is fact, you made a claim, I presented counter-evidence in the exact same manner you presented your claim. Simple as that. Feel the aggression? Now maybe you'd reflect on your own use of language.

Now, take into account that this runs in conjunction at the exact same moment where I'm also faulted for something that I'm completely not in the wrong for, based on a bad lore edit by some other individual in 2009 that you were completely oblivious of, and maybe you'd get a miniscule perspective on how frustrated I was feeling at that moment.

4. I look forward to Mizahar being developed. I've donated $250 in U.S.D already just based on what I've seen and read here. It's one of the best roleplay forums and worlds out there and truly, I want to help out and contribute. But if it's the first time I ask a legitimate question and I'm met with things like this, it really makes me reconsider, not that it would matter to any of you anyways.

I like this site based on its reputation, what I've seen with my own eyes and what I believe the community and its members have to offer. What you've just done is seriously something I would have never expected. It doesn't change anything but honestly I'm quite exasperated.

I believe I've said enough. Either way I've made my point.
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Question regarding Akalaks

Postby Gossamer on March 28th, 2015, 5:32 pm

Lets be frank. You seem not to mind that, so I'm more than willing to go along with that bent. You sent your very apologetic PM before you saw my response which was in fact POSTED before your pm was sent. Now your mad. I get it. But lets discuss it further.

Again, putting world class top rated athletes in comparison to average normal NPCs and PCs aren't what people really need to do to answer general questions. Ive answered your questions. I've also corrected a gross mistake in the wiki which I also openly said was a mistake.

But if you want to get into the meat and bones of things... here's agreat article by NPR which might answer and counter some of your assumptions about the BMI.

1. The person who dreamed up the BMI said explicitly that it could not and should not be used to indicate the level of fatness in an individual.

The BMI was introduced in the early 19th century by a Belgian named Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet. He was a mathematician, not a physician. He produced the formula to give a quick and easy way to measure the degree of obesity of the general population to assist the government in allocating resources. In other words, it is a 200-year-old hack.

2. It is scientifically nonsensical.

There is no physiological reason to square a person's height (Quetelet had to square the height to get a formula that matched the overall data. If you can't fix the data, rig the formula!). Moreover, it ignores waist size, which is a clear indicator of obesity level.

3. It is physiologically wrong.

It makes no allowance for the relative proportions of bone, muscle and fat in the body. But bone is denser than muscle and twice as dense as fat, so a person with strong bones, good muscle tone and low fat will have a high BMI. Thus, athletes and fit, health-conscious movie stars who work out a lot tend to find themselves classified as overweight or even obese.

4. It gets the logic wrong.

The CDC says on its Web site that "the BMI is a reliable indicator of body fatness for people." This is a fundamental error of logic. For example, if I tell you my birthday present is a bicycle, you can conclude that my present has wheels. That's correct logic. But it does not work the other way round. If I tell you my birthday present has wheels, you cannot conclude I got a bicycle. I could have received a car. Because of how Quetelet came up with it, if a person is fat or obese, he or she will have a high BMI. But as with my birthday present, it doesn't work the other way round. A high BMI does not mean an individual is even overweight, let alone obese. It could mean the person is fit and healthy, with very little fat.

5. It's bad statistics.

Because the majority of people today (and in Quetelet's time) lead fairly sedentary lives and are not particularly active, the formula tacitly assumes low muscle mass and high relative fat content. It applies moderately well when applied to such people because it was formulated by focusing on them. But it gives exactly the wrong answer for a large and significant section of the population, namely the lean, fit and healthy. Quetelet is also the person who came up with the idea of "the average man." That's a useful concept, but if you try to apply it to any one person, you come up with the absurdity of a person with 2.4 children. Averages measure entire populations and often don't apply to individuals.

6. It is lying by scientific authority.

Because the BMI is a single number between 1 and 100 (like a percentage) that comes from a mathematical formula, it carries an air of scientific authority. But it is mathematical snake oil.

7. It suggests there are distinct categories of underweight, ideal, overweight and obese, with sharp boundaries that hinge on a decimal place.

That's total nonsense.

8. It makes the more cynical members of society suspect that the medical insurance industry lobbies for the continued use of the BMI to keep their profits high.

Insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums for people with a high BMI. Among such people are all those fit individuals with good bone and muscle and little fat, who will live long, healthy lives during which they will have to pay those greater premiums.

9. Continued reliance on the BMI means doctors don't feel the need to use one of the more scientifically sound methods that are available to measure obesity levels
.

Those alternatives cost a little bit more, but they give far more reliable results.

10. It embarrasses the U.S.

It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then.


I could go on and on about how muscle is far more heavier than fat and why some of your examples wouldn't work for normal people, but i have a shit job to do today and i've put it off longer than I've wanted too. So I'm leaving.

I don't care how much money you've donated to the site. Money isn't something that keeps us going as much as people writing here do. Write. Develop. I'm grateful that you've given a huge chunk of your coin to our cause. But then so have a lot of people here... and they don't go dragging it out and waving it under our noses. I've given nothing but blood sweat and tears for YEARS to both create and keep this site going. I'm sure you are a very nice person. But I also know butthurt when I see it and there's no need for it. I asked you to correct something I saw as bad, you did, and I absolutely assured you that it wasn't your fault. YEt here you are trying to show up some admin you decided you didn't like right off the bat and more power too you.

But this site exists because someone like me has always been here making decisions, keeping things going, and asking players to stay on a clear course we set for it. Resent it? Try to fight it. Whatever. You aren't going to change it. Miz is what it is because we've worked damn hard to make it so. These sort of public outbursts don't aid your cause. You work with us, or you become part of the problem. Sure, I could have had different opinions that more closely fit yours. But I don't... and you have to deal with that however you want too in whatever way you want. That won't change the fact that Miz is my baby and you are here because I helped birth her. You can steer clear of me and go about your business in Alvadas (which I also have interests in) or make nice and move forward from here. Being confrontational doesn't get you very far here. And if its the donation you are worried about, we can sure as hell refund it to you because we let you down so terribly.

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