Wilderness Survival Questions

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Wilderness Survival Questions

Postby Telrin on January 31st, 2014, 10:42 pm

Hey there, all! I was looking over the wilderness survival article again and I wasn't quite clear on something. Most of the proficiency descriptions say that someone can survive for a certain time without relying on the comforts of civilization, and I couldn't help but wonder what exactly "comforts of civilization" are, specifically? Does that mean they can't survive that long without returning to a city proper? What about a cabin in the wilderness, if you ignore the dangers to that cabin? Would a simple tent be considered a "comfort of civilization?"

On another, kind of related note, would it be possible to get a rough sketch of exactly how dangerous the wilderness is? My character's in and around Syliras at this point, and he spends a lot of time outside. I hear the mods say all the time that the outside world is extremely dangerous, but I also see loads of PCs that just decide to take a stroll through the Cobalt Mountains as if there's nothing to worry about. Somehow I get the feeling that there's a bit more to it than that, and I was wondering if I could get a point of reference or something. For instance, say my PC suddenly comes across/builds/claims a cabin in the wilderness. Pretend he's got all the skills and equipment necessary to stay there for a virtually indefinite period of time. So he knows how to fight off the average wolf, bear, whatever, and can perform basic house maintenance. How dangerous is the outside world? Would a magic beastie come crashing through his door to try and gobble him up? If that is the case, how long could he theoretically expect to live in peace in this cabin before such an incident took place and forced him to defend himself? Exactly how dangerous is "extremely dangerous?"
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Wilderness Survival Questions

Postby Basek on February 1st, 2014, 1:29 am

So, i'll answer both of your questions to the best of my abilities.

The comforts of civilization can be considered acquisition of food and fresh water, medicine, replacements for torn clothing or equipment, and being in a safe environment.

The wilds of Mizahar are not safe, settling down will easily attract danger to you quickly. There are wild and enormous feral beasts such as dire animals, monsters such as Yukmen, and even other travelers who may seek to kill you for your things or enslave you. And that's if the environment doesn't get you with infectious disease, heat, cold, or poisonous insects/snakes.

A successful person in the wilderness is someone skilled at acquiring food, acquiring water, and protecting themselves from danger. These things are not as easy as you may think, as just one of these activities can easily occupy your entire day with little result considering the energy you are spending to acquire these things.

Some races or magic will give you better odds. Zith, for example, can fly away from most danger and have a considerable advantage over prey animals. A Morpher turning into a bird model could possibly travel quicker.

Also, there are many Gnosis marks that can be quite useful in the wilds, such as Phylonura, Cultivation, Tatani, Illusionism, and even Returning which reduces the amount of food and water you need to eat.

I'm not an expert on the subject, and I really haven't looked into Wilderness Survival-type characters. This is what I know so far, hopefully some of it helped, but know not everything I say is true as I am inexperienced.
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Wilderness Survival Questions

Postby Gale Austin McCenry on February 1st, 2014, 1:45 am



These are some really, really good questions Terlin, and I'm glad you brought them up, for I feel they do need to be discussed more sometimes.

I feel you when you say that I see people stroll in the wild all the time and pretend there's nothing to it and such. That's a major pet peeve of mine, and it's actually prevented me from doing any traveling until now (for I didn't want to end up like that at all).

In addition to what Veloth said I shall say this:

If it were me, however, and I had no idea exactly how dangerous it was exactly, and I see the two sides (the mods saying it's dangerous and people playing as if it's not) I'd rather go into the extreme of it being super super dangerous than not at all. I'd rather have Gale be chased by a tiger than not see anything at all, just so I'm not underplaying it.

But if you were going to look at it logically, as I see are trying to do, I would look at it this way. Feel free to question me or to ask more questions or whatever. XD

When the skills page says novice level people are able to live a week without the comforts of civilizations, I picture it as a few things. You'd have to find your food, test your food, and prepare your food yourself with little to no resources other than what you have on you and what you build. You have to make your own shelter. You'd have to find a river, a stream, or pond/lake to get water, and sometimes, you'd have to clean it or else you'll get sick. You have to use what's around you, such a branches for weapons and tools. Things that people take for granted, is what I think it means by civilization.

Like, have you ever seen one of those movies where someone has lived in the wild all their life and then someone finds them and brings them home and they are all 'Oooh, what's this?" I kinda picture everything they are all 'What is that' is something that one can consider civilized and shouldn't be counted on in the wild. Yes, a tent is convenient, and a knife is convenient to have in the wild and it will help you survive long in the wild and make it easier, but it's still part of civilization and thus, can be left out, for it's not something you'd naturally have in the wild unless you walked into the woods or the desert with it. Someone could survive in the wild without a 'properly built' knife from the city with a high enough level, for you can make it out of sticks and stones. One could survive without a tent if they have a high enough level, for you can live in a tree or a cave. One could go without a jacket or a shirt in the wild if they have a high enough level, for you can use leaves or go without them at all (depending on the season).

How I see it, think of cave men. If a cave man wouldn't have it, then it's civilized, and you can live without. So, yes, I do believe a tent is comfort of civilization, though I suggest you take one with you, even if you have a high level of Wilderness Survival. And when they say they can live 7 days without the comforts of civilization, it means they can live without a nice knife, or a fancy tent, or easy accessed food for a week before they start needing said comforts again (for whatever reason).

As for exactly how dangerous it is, I think I might have a way of explaining it, though I'm not sure if it will help or not.

How I picture it is the wilderness if dangerous enough that you cannot, and I mean cannot travel by yourself unless you are a master (maybe expert, though I suggest having at least one other person) at wilderness survival. If you travel by yourself, it is too easy for animals and monster to pick you off or for you to starve or to get sick or injured. You either have to be traveling with a caravan with some people, or with a large group and some horses and such. That's how I see it. You will not find many lone travelers in the wildlands unless they are an expert or higher (unless their a ghost or something), especially the further you get from a given city. And regions where they tell you it's even more dangerous, such as the Grasslands and such, just add another notch to that and I believe you should be good. Like I said earlier,it is better to over play how dangerous it is and have your character paranoid or whatever then to be too casual and relaxed about it (since 1: it's dangerous and 2: It's every mod's pet peeve). You wouldn't find anyone just strolling calmly in a haunted house in the middle of the night by yourself. You also wouldn't find anyone just casually walking the wildlands.

Hopefully that at least helps. I can try to explain it again if it's too confusing, but that's how I would put it.



Now, last but not least, you cabin example. I can almost guarantee that you will NOT find a random cabin in the wild. No one in their right mind would build a cabin in the wild if they had a choice to live in a safer place, such as a city. You will not even find a small village, with a large group of people living in the wild. It is just too dangerous to stay in one place too long in a place that's so obvious and not hidden (such a a cabin or village). Unless this cabin was built by a PC who had master Wilderness survival and has since then, left, or you managed to get said place approved or built it yourself, then you will not find any sort of building in the wildlands.

But moving on. If you did find a cabin, I believe that it would still be dangerous to live it. It would give you shelter, yes, but I think within a few days of animals seeing that said cabin is active (if there weren't animals already making it their home) they would start snooping around. Especially if you cook or gut or skin animals near or inside the cabin. If you were an master though, I can see you being able to fight of said animals though, especially if they were hogs or a wolf/dog, or even black bears and such. Grizzly bears, tigers, or a pack of wolves anything else you'd have to be more careful with, for even an master survivalist can lose against a large predator (or many smaller sized predators) if they aren't well enough equipped to face them or are caught off guard.

Though, even if you were a master survivalist, I do not see why you would want to live in the wild by yourself for so long anyway unless you're on the run or something. For it would be a hassle to deal with the wild life and everything when you could just live in a city that is near by.

So yeah, that's my take. I hope that helps and it wasn't too confusing at all. But if it is, then just tell and I can try rewording it.

Also, if you (or anyone else) think I wrong on anything then please tell me.

PS. Sorry it's a long response. :P

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Wilderness Survival Questions

Postby Telrin on February 1st, 2014, 4:01 am

Thank you! This makes a lot of sense, and is something I will definitely be incorporating into my roleplay.
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Wilderness Survival Questions

Postby Gillar on February 3rd, 2014, 3:19 pm

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I woke up, logged on for a moment and saw this question and thought I'd try to help. There have been some good answers given thus far and I wanted to expand on them a bit.

As far as the comforts of civilization, both Veloth and Gale are correct. Building on that though, the comforts of civilization would be anything you would be able to acquire within a city with a bit of coin or items to trade. For example, one may find available fresh water, varying types of food, clean clothing in good repair, medical attention when needed, some form of sturdy shelter, heat or the ability to create it, some form of security, tools/utensils, weapons, armor and of course, social interaction.

Now, when it comes to quantifying this with the Wilderness Survival skill, the Novice is able to survive up to 7 days without the comforts of civilization. That means that in the absence of all the things listed above, your skills in surviving the wilds are enough to keep you going for another 7 days, 14 at Competent, 30 at Expert and Indefinitely as a Master.

Now, that having been said, if you are able to establish, in your survival situation, a way to acquire the equivalent of a good number of the listed comforts of civilization (mind you these will be rudimentary at best) and have the skill to survive in a particular environment, you could continue far past the number of days listed for each level of the skill. For example, let's say you are able to establish some form of shelter. This could be a cave, a hollow tree, bit of ruins or even something like a tent or pseudo-structure made out of some tree branches and foliage. Having a bit of shelter will take you quite a way in the task of surviving.

Now perhaps you then go searching for a source of clean, fresh water. In some regions this could be easier than others but there are numerous ponds, lakes, streams, rivers, etc., located around inland Mizahar.

Sources of food such as edible plants or that found from hunting animals along with the knowledge of how to prepare it all can also carry you quite a way.

Knowing how to create a fire, which is usually acquired early on in the first level of Wilderness Survival, will allow the cooking of food, ability to get warm as well as help in the feeling of security.

Much of the Wilderness Survival skill is made up of Lores. Of course you will gain XP in the skill itself but it is the Lores that round it out and detail exactly what you know and what you can do. There are numerous supplementary skills that will greatly aid in Wilderness Survival such as Hunting, Foraging, Herbalism, Medicine, Flint-Knapping, Climbing just to name a few.

Once you've established the essentials of survival; shelter, fire, food and water, you can work on establishing some of the rudimentary comforts of civilization that allow you to successfully survive away from civilization. Having something to keep you entertained and your mind busy, a way to keep yourself warmer or cooler which could include a way to supplement or repair your clothing, a serviceable bed and/or blanket, herbs useful in medicines, these all can made up the comforts of civilization that can keep you sustained for extended periods of time.

As for how dangerous the wilderness is, this is actually an area of contention that we are constantly dealing with. The wilderness is very dangerous. That is why there are comparatively few cities in Mizahar even though the land mass is quite large. One should simply be able to walk off a couple miles from a city and expect to be just fine. There is a reason why many cities are walled which doesn't include fear of invading armies. The threats posed by the wilderness are indeed great. As mentioned, there are Zith. The majority of the wild zith are a great threat since they are almost always found in large numbers which allows them an easier time of picking off smaller groups of prey and especially lone individuals. There are natural predators such as lions, bears, wolves and other apex predators. There are snakes, insects, plants and other animals that are poisonous and are found everywhere. A simple cut or bite means extreme pain and/or death. Then there are the more supernatural threats with some already mentioned. These are the more unpredictable threats that most are not fully prepared to handle.

Now, going with your cabin example, you will likely not find a cabin in the wilderness. You could theoretically stumble across some ruins however most would not be intact enough to use without some amount of modification and construction. It is very possible though for a character to head out into the wilds and claim a bit of land then build a home for themselves. That only solves your shelter requirement of living outside of civilization though. You still need to establish a source of food, water and fire. Let's say you are able to do all that and thus have a comfy little home for yourself. You still have to deal with the before-mentioned threats. So now, living in the little cabin you built for yourself (again, assuming the required skills and resources to do so), you would still have the threat of zith and other predators, poisonous and/or diseased animals and plants, supernatural monsters and such as well as other humanoids out searching for an easy target. Depending on how far into the wilderness you go, you will lose the protection of city patrols that regularly travel a short distance from and around the city. You will open yourself to dangers everytime you walk out the door of your cabin for food, water or material for a fire or anything else you may wish to gather.

Your life would be a constant challenge living in such a way. If you went into it with some related skill and/or knowledge, you could build on those and actually become extremely proficient in living in the wilderness; assuming you are able to fend off the threats. Granted, the threats may eventually diminish and/or you would find ways of handling them in some form or another but there will always be threats. How long one could go in peace without threats from the "outside world" all depends on where you are, what you know and how skilled you are in fending off varied threats.

This is why I discourage quick, easy strolls into the forests as well as long term travel from city to city. Most characters do not possess the skill or knowledge to survive for more than a couple of days at most outside of a city. A novice level of Wilderness Survival won't get you from one city to another without a road and/or heavy amounts of supplies and support. Even a competent level of wilderness survival will only get you part of the way unless you again have large amounts of supplies, support and a road. Most humanoids are not designed for long term survival away from civilization without adequate skills and/or resources.

After saying all that though, I think the quest to survival away from civilization for extended periods of time can be an amazing journey toward character development both in story and in skill. A single thread, done well, can net you a plethora of related skills and experiences. You just have to be prepared for extreme danger and the possibility that the situations you put yourself in could very well end in your death.
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