Shielding Questions

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Shielding Questions

Postby Vizayas on June 4th, 2015, 8:46 pm

I was asking some questions about Shielding on chat, but now I realize most have their own opinion on it. The Shielding lore is quite confusing, and many people seem to have their own way to interpret it. These questions are aimed at seeing if my knowledge of shielding is accurate, and to fill any gaps.

1. Shielding blocks 'djed', but djed is everything. From the lore: ' A shielded chimney, for example, will protect against djed penetrating it, but still allow smoke to escape.' What is the chimney blocking, exactly? If it's not tasked to protect against something, what sort of djed is it blocking if not everything? And if it's everything, why is the smoke still passing through?

2. What are some examples of 'absorbing djed'? Are you incorporating pieces of an aggressor into the weave? Does this let you shield against it after the initial contact, satisfying the requirement for needing a djed example to task against it?

3. Shielding (from the lore) 'can be functionally designed to allow djed in but not out, out but not in, or completely block the passage of djed from both sides.' What level of Shielding do I need, and how would I go about referencing a shield being one-way on a specific side? Could I task against someone's djed, telling the shield to allow them in, but not out, preventing them from going any direction but forward if they cross it with any part of their body?

EDIT: Gossamer's words on this, from this thread. It seems like an answer conflicting with the lore.
Gossamer wrote:
You are assigning more intelligence to a shield than one actually has. You can't exactly task it to let something in but not something out. IT either blocks something or it doesn't. So in the example above, if you tasked the shield to block a biological like hide, it would not allow hide to pass... in or out.

See the issue?


4. Tasking against 'steel' is less effective than tasking against a 'sword' since the djed of a sword is very different from the steel it was made out of. The closer the shield is to something's djed, the more effective it is at blocking it. If a shield is ineffective but partially tasked, does that simply mean that it's easier to penetrate?

5. Tasking against a race is a master level technique that requires tons of lore about that race, and biological materials. it. Is this true, or do I just need sufficient skill to weave biological material, and a sample of biological material akin to the bear example in the lore?

6. Can a shield influence what is read by Auristics? Could they prevent a lesser skilled Aurist from reading their aura beyond the shield itself?
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Shielding Questions

Postby Roderick on June 4th, 2015, 11:57 pm



1. I think this is maybe just a bit of poor wording here. Basically the chimney still serves its primary purpose - to prevent smoke filling a room - but its been shielded so that nothing else can get in or out. Maybe the mage is soundproofing his private sanctuary, or he wants to make sure that absolutely no one can get inside that area? I think the idea here is just to show that a shield can be made to allow one thing through while denying others access.

2. "If a shield is tasked to keep a human of any sort from using a doorway by a level 32 Shielder, they may attempt to use an attack of some sort (unarmed combat, brawl, tumbling?) to penetrate that shield one time. Tasked shields are far stronger than simple djed blocking shields, so depending upon how often that shield has absorbed djed (and grown stronger) or how long it has been in place (deterioration) without maintenance, the tasked target may penetrate. Generally speaking they have a 50% chance of success if their skill at whatever skill they use is higher than the caster of the shield. This success might be adjusted higher or lower by a moderator depending upon the growth or deterioration of the skill. A failed attempt will result in a shield strengthening against that attack and making it impossible to penetrate thereafter."

Take what you will from that, but it seems like it's basically saying that if someone makes a failed attempt at destroying a shield with, say, an arrow with a steel tip, then the shield will make itself immune to steel-tipped arrows as a defense mechanism.

3. On the one hand I feel like Goss has maybe made a blunder there - no one person can remember absolutely anything. On the other hand if anyone knows Miz it's her so... can't really say which is the right answer here.

4. I don't really remember reading anything along the lines of "The closer the shield is to something's djed, the more effective it is at blocking it." True, the djed of a sword is different to that of steel - but there isn't just any one kind of sword, and they aren't all made of steel. So by that logic, shielding against swords using a longsword would mean that the shield would only be protected fully against longswords. But overall I just think the argument is odd. Yeah the sword looks very different to the steel, but its still made out of the same basic materials, the same way a tree and a table look very different but are both made out of wood.

5. "Tasking against a race is a master level technique that requires tons of lore about that race, and biological materials." I'd say that's accurate. I reckon that differentiating between some races would be easier than others. So shielding against things that are wildly different, say Charoda as compared to a Drykas, would be relatively easy as compared to Human Subraces like the Inarta and Vantha. As well as that though you there are loopholes to that situation. Just because someone identifies as a Drykas doesn't mean they actually share any blood with the horse tribes. e.g. Kavala is a Konti but was raised as a Drykas.

6. As far as I'm aware no, a shield can't "hide" its nature at all. The only way someone could be prevented from studying it is if they have, say, 20 auristics while the mage that made the shield has 40 in shielding.
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Shielding Questions

Postby Clyde Sullins on June 5th, 2015, 12:17 am

I think I've gotten answers to some of these before, so I'll try to answer as best as I know.

However bear in mind if Goss says something different, such as in the case of question 3, I'd go with what she said. Bear in mind she wrote it, and that perhaps the shielding lore is in need of an update in some regards, but she knows it better than anyone since... Well she made it.

Lores are really difficult to make, and a magic lore is a really long and complex bit of writing. Considering that, I'm surprised there as few issues as there are with the magic lores. That had to take a ton of work from the founders to get those all put out. So there are bound to be one or two issues in something that big. If she says something counter to the lore, go with it. She's right.

1. Shielding blocks 'djed', but djed is everything. From the lore: ' A shielded chimney, for example, will protect against djed penetrating it, but still allow smoke to escape.' What is the chimney blocking, exactly? If it's not tasked to protect against something, what sort of djed is it blocking if not everything? And if it's everything, why is the smoke still passing through?


1- Hmm... This is more of a theory question, about how djed works, less so a shielding question. Yes, everything is made of djed, and djed defines everything. The reason a rock is a certain height, or feels a certain way, is written upon its djed. But there are also different levels of purity of djed. When we talk about blocking djed, we don't mean everything in existence, this more so means, or so I'd think, pure djed such as what is used or transmuted to perform magic.

All magic uses djed to do the impossible, to cause some change. That is a very pure usage of djed. So the effects or creations of that would be blockable by shielding, being djed blocking.

Of course that theory falls apart when we get to the upper end of the scale, since the purist form of djed is the soul... So yeah, can't totally answer that question, and not sure if it can totally be answered.

But think of it this way. The djed used in magic is like energy. It can be combined, stored(with glyphing), broken into parts, or released as a spell. A djed blocking shield blocks that energy, more or less.

Or perhaps it works better to think of djed of different sorts as different forms of djed. In the chimney example, the smoke gets out because it is a different form of djed. The shield is tasked to block djed djed, a specific tasking to block a specific form of djed. Smoke can go through, but a magical fireball can't. If instead you tasked it to block the specific form of smoke djed, then smoke couldn't get through, but a magical fireball could.

If you think of it all as tasking, and a basic djed blocking shield being tasked to block the form of djed commonly found in most personal magics, perhaps then it makes sense?

Like I said, this is more theory stuff. In the end, we know it works as it does, why is to be puzzled out and theorized on.

2. What are some examples of 'absorbing djed'? Are you incorporating pieces of an aggressor into the weave? Does this let you shield against it after the initial contact, satisfying the requirement for needing a djed example to task against it?


2- If you task a shield to block djed, then a magical fireball thrown at it would either break the shield, or bounce off. If you tasked a shield to absorb djed, for one the shield could be to a degree self sustaining, and possible to be repaired. Second, if a magic spell came at it, it might absorb some of the djed, though most of said fireball would still get through.

If you did both, so long as it didn't break the shield outright, it'd both stop the fireball, but also absorb djed from it, and thus not damage the shield at all, possibly making it stronger.

Alternatively, sometimes there is ambient djed about, and that might possibly be absorbed and taken into the weave of the shield. More useful in djed rich areas, like Sahova.

It is mentioned that if a magic attack fails, then the shield will harden against it and a second attempt will be futile. However in this case the shield was tasked to block whatever is being put at it. This bit is mentioned under vulnerabilities and restrictions. If a djed blocking shield is attacked by a effect it is tasked against, which is of a higher level than the shield, then it might break the shield, or might not, 50% chance. If it fails, then the shield learns of that specific attack, or such, and then becomes impervious to the same one.

Not sure if that means anyone using the specific skill , or just that particular person using that skill on the shield. Nor how it would work if you attempted it, then came back better skilled at that skill and tried again. No clue how that works.

If a shield is not tasked to block that specific thing, then it will not react at all, and so this would not occur. No free tasking by throwing stuff at a shield.

3. Shielding (from the lore) 'can be functionally designed to allow djed in but not out, out but not in, or completely block the passage of djed from both sides.' What level of Shielding do I need, and how would I go about referencing a shield being one-way on a specific side? Could I task against someone's djed, telling the shield to allow them in, but not out, preventing them from going any direction but forward if they cross it with any part of their body?


3- As Goss says in the following, apparently this was a misunderstanding in the lore, and shields aren't one way. They either block or don't. Go with Goss.

EDIT: Gossamer's words on this, from this thread. It seems like an answer conflicting with the lore.
Gossamer wrote:
You are assigning more intelligence to a shield than one actually has. You can't exactly task it to let something in but not something out. IT either blocks something or it doesn't. So in the example above, if you tasked the shield to block a biological like hide, it would not allow hide to pass... in or out.

See the issue?


4. Tasking against 'steel' is less effective than tasking against a 'sword' since the djed of a sword is very different from the steel it was made out of. The closer the shield is to something's djed, the more effective it is at blocking it. If a shield is ineffective but partially tasked, does that simply mean that it's easier to penetrate?


4- You can't just task against steel, or task against a sword. You'd need to do both. If I task a shield to block a steel longsword, then it would block steel longswords. If someone used a bronze longsword, the shield wouldn't block. If you used a steel mace, it wouldn't work. Apparently sometimes there is some overlap, so similar items might count. Tasking a dagger might also count as a knife, but drastically different items would be different items.

There are two elements to a weapon tasking, the material, and the item. Both needs to be tasked to be blocked, for the shield to block it. However, apparently there is some ability to mix and match within a shield layer. So if you task to block bronze arrows, and steel longswords, and someone uses a steel arrow and a bronze longsword, it'd block both. This bit I got from Goss awhile ago.

However if someone comes at you with a bone dagger, your petched. Or if someone uses a rare alloy... Its one of the reasons weapon shielding is so complex, and only possible for higher level shielders. Its almost impossible to predict all of the combinations.

If you only block one of the components, the material or the item, the shield doesn't block. There is no partial blocking, it either blocks or doesn't.

5. Tasking against a race is a master level technique that requires tons of lore about that race, and biological materials. it. Is this true, or do I just need sufficient skill to weave biological material, and a sample of biological material akin to the bear example in the lore?


5- I've never heard that blocking a race is a master level technique. Biological tasking is under tasking on the shield lore. If you want to block all humans, then you need a bit of human stuff, blood, hair, tissue, and you weave it in. Then no humans can pass through. Good luck with trying to touch yourself though if you are a human. Your gonna have that itch for a long time!

Of course like with weapons, its material specific. So a mixed breed won't be blocked, nor another race. Blocking out one race is probably possible at perhaps competent level, as it says on the lore, but how useful is blocking one race really?

Alternatively you could keep out wolves, or bears, or such.

6. Can a shield influence what is read by Auristics? Could they prevent a lesser skilled Aurist from reading their aura beyond the shield itself?


6- I'm not totally sure on that. In some ways, reading a aura is a outward and inward thing. You are using djed to latch onto an aura, and to understand it... But an aura also comes out from a person... So perhaps you could block someone from reading you with a djed blocking shield.

Of course, if you happen to be a mage, and you put a djed blocking shield about yourself to stop a aurist from reading you, you've just made it impossible to use magic. So not sure how effective that'd be. So I'd think it'd be a bit of a moot point, since losing all of your ability to use personal magic, just so you can't be read by an aurist, seems a bit silly.
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Shielding Questions

Postby Vizayas on June 5th, 2015, 12:30 am

Clyde Sullins wrote:
Of course, if you happen to be a mage, and you put a djed blocking shield about yourself to stop a aurist from reading you, you've just made it impossible to use magic. So not sure how effective that'd be. So I'd think it'd be a bit of a moot point, since losing all of your ability to use personal magic, just so you can't be read by an aurist, seems a bit silly.


So there is no way to weave exceptions into a shield? If you're blocking something, you're blocking it, and you can't get the shield to make an exception for something you create? Morphing is internal though, so I imagine you would be able to accomplish that considering a shield stretches.

Also, the both of you have given me some good answers. I have a lot to think about now, thank you very much.
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