Looking to meet people in Sylira, and Mage Craft

[Wrenmae]

This table indicates overall production costs for an item with a given Coefficient. These values include a large number of low-level reagents and materials that would be required throughout construction, but are common enough that their availability can be assumed without a problem. They do not include the cost of the base item, which must be created or acquired separately.

This table can be used to estimate an item's market price, for example by tripling the listed prices; however, the sheer rarity of high-level items means that truly powerful products are virtually priceless. It would be highly unusual to see an item with a MC greater than 5 for public sale.



That's where I got my info from...directly off the Magecraft part in the lore. The way I understood it is that there are reagents and Reagents. The lowercase reagents are things that Tarot didn't put in the write-up...unimportant reactive substances and materials that should be fairly easy to come across...but expensive to purchase. So even the lowest level MC item still requires a lot of ingredients to work. it's when you get up to needing Reagents, that you can't just buy them...but have to find them.


That was my understanding anyways.

[Sahana]

Lol no no of course not, but I was sort of expecting to be able to do minor enchantments or something with the skill set out of the box upon creation. Like even if you cashed in your housing, didn't spend a dime found a lab you still can't create nothing cause your 400 GM short

But why would you need to recharge the tools if they are items of Mage Craft? Don't we get our own specialized mage crafting runes? Why would you need glyphing other then to enhance your runic set up? I get reagents but I don't get why they wouldn't establish that in the write up, after much deliberation I came up with my own theory on the expense after reading about mage wire that's incredibly expensive. What about specialized mage craft paint? One that's made out of a derivative of this in a metallic paint? It would make sense, as it's a reagent but it would apply to even minor stuff and would allow the product being worked upon for imparting in a realistic way that corresponds to the lores we have in place.

But I do agree Eanos there's huge vague areas that leave gaps for all kinds of interpretation. Like what can and cannot Mage Craft Runes do opposed to Glyphing, it's not listed as a prerequisite and while definitely helpful on many levels it's not a specified requirement.

But I do agree with time consuming organization and preparation, mapping how you want to flow the Djed through the item, and then finally following through on the project. Stuff like that is time consuming days months even years. Just wildly swinging the charge hammer is just gonna get you killed, at least that's my opinion.

[Eanos]

I've had to go back and re read all of it because I raised some questions in my own mind

First there are no magecraft runes - there are runes which can be unique to each mage, regardless of sphere as it were. Glyphing is the skill of working with those runes - glyphing of itself cannot be used without another mage discipline. You can probably MC without glyphing but the risk of something blowing up in your face is probably higher. Which then should start to lead you to wondering about Shielding and so forth.

With regards charging, I think the charge basin description in the price list is the clue. Glyphs have a finite life, so the magecrafting is to stablise the glyph and to give it the ability to charge the water. Hammers create pathways in the djed of the item which could be read as implying that they project djed - which would need to be replaced just like the water in the basin. But all of this is conjecture

However the more I read, the more I am convinced that attempting to be a fully fledged magecrafter straight from scratch is indeed just a way to shorten your life expectancy.

In much the same way that being competent in Malediction without the auristic skill to see what is happening in your items is likely to do...

If I were you, given you haven't really done much yet I'd consider making some changes to your character sheet. I'd reassign some of your XP into the support skills, and I'd dump some of those magecraft tools that you can't use unless you apprentice and then which you'll be able to borrow anyway and have the crowns to have somewhere to live and buy some stuff, especially given that you don't actually get paid officially until the end of the season (you can work round this to some degree).

[Sahana]

I just went over what you said and much to my surprise your absolutely correct, I'm just confused now how your supposed to channel anything into an mc item without some kind of runic format. I must have misread something somewhere, so glyphing seems necessary now. However I find this reagent and catalyst thing utterly perplexing as now you no longer have the capacity to transfer these components into the said item. Many forms of world magics have runic variants, for example malediction with ther circles and summoning with there circles as well but these are not necessarily considered glyphs and carry magic properties of there own. So somewhere down the road I must have jumbled something up, although for a magic craft without a means to coordinate magic, reagents, materials, catalysts what have you; seems a little bit far fetched and practically impossible. Now it seems like it's a matter of hammering an item with a charge hammer, but how you pulling those properties into the object once you've opened up Djed pathways?

As for Auristics there are many ways around that, most of it is those specialized lenses that allow you to see the aura of what your working with.

But with Malediction if the item breaks it simply ceases to function it does not explode, or if you mess up the circle it will not function at all.Tthe real danger is testing the item out after creation

But I do agree with you overall I'm going to spend some time and think about this

[Sahana]

Oh ok here it is, under the price list the description of the pedestal definitely describes Mage Craft runes. A universal one that all Mage crafters would know without glyphing. That's where I read it, so I know I'm not jumbling up what I previously thought. So there is something there, how it works what it does I'm unclear upon however what I am certain of it that there is an unmentioned runic system being used in Mage Craft that is not specified in the article.

[Eanos]

Yes, it is true that it is a rune used in MageCraft on the pedestal as there is in the charge basin, and that all magecrafters recognise it. However you will note that magecrafters don't on the whole make the pedestals, so there is a difference between seeing a rune and being able to create it, or being able to charge it. There is no special MC runic system.

[Sahana]

That's not necessarily true though, because almost all those items although not all have MC values. Those tools were likely made on a novice level, which would mean the bigger the project the more reagents required the more volatile the project becomes. At some point in your career you would probably have to make better versions of these items in order to better your chances of not hurting yourself in the fabrication process.

And what I believe this universal rune allows the user to do, is to siphon the properties, essence or Djed what you out of the reagent, catalyst etc and draw it into the item being worked upon. It's the only way you could work with some level of sophisticated precision, on the project. Unless your thinking we take the reagent and beat it ontop of the project with the charge hammers.

It would also represent the difference between Malediction circles as they draw there power from within the item opposed to drawing it out. Which would indicate why Malediction items cannot be used as reagents.

This is what I think the process would look like, you got a sword in the center of the rune. You hit the item with the hammer and it opens up the pathways. Within the pedestal the reagent sits, connected to the main universal rune. You tap this with the hammer opening up the Djed pathways in the regeant as its allowing it to sap its essence drawing the Djed from this item into the sword. So if there were many reagents involved, you could call upon the necessary pattern, like two reagents then catalyst reagent catalyst reagent catalyst etc.

[Eanos]

Now you are developing how you think the process works which is good for when you come to RP it. It is however only 'universal' in the sense that the way the glyph has been constructed is accepted as being the 'best' way so it's universal in the sense of being the way it is done universally ie by everyone - it isn't part of a 'secret' MC runic system.

Technically you could create it with glyphing and use it without it having a MC value. However you'd only be able to use it the once, or maybe a couple of times.

Those items have MC values because it is the only way to stop the glyph crumbling after it has been used. If the works in the way you describe (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you because you need to have a way that works for you), then it works because the glyph has been constructed to do that - and in order to construct it that way you have to be able to glyph. Only then can you MC the glyph with say durability.


And yes, you would of course remake your tools as you progressed in your career. Let's say you made a pedestal with the help of a stonemason as a novice - you'd only be able to put an MC of 2 on the durability, and that assumes you didn't use one of the MC's for something else. If you used it enough it might start to crumble enough to make it unusable. Having a pedestal made by a Master that is going to survive the next Valterrian is clearly a more reliable thing to be using

[Sahana]

I wasn't implying that there was a secret runic system, but I do believe that the mark is a Magecraft Circle an inverted form of a Malediction circle interconnecting reagents into the primary object. It would not be a product of glyphing, much in the same way Malediction Circles, Summoning portals, and Alchemy Circles function. As when you make these they do not yield glyphing XP, and they do not crumble upon there activation. And also adds to Gillars specification that the rune is universal and you do not need to know glyphing in order to use it.

It also does not specify that these items need to be recharged periodically not in the write up, nor in the price list. For example after you've finished cooling an item down in the charge basin, all you might need to dump the water out and refill it, and in time the MC rune within the basin would recharge the water for the next project in theory.

But I don't disagree that it had to come from somewhere, that glyphing was used to create the first tools or could be used to pioneer the roughest forms of almost all world magic and that it can be used as an enhancement or fail safe.

However there is the ever present difference between MC items and Glyphing, and that is MC items are permanent, And naturally you could be completely right, but then I also could be right. There's so much grey I could function like this, and you could function the way you do. And I can safely say this because there is no primary formula that binds us to some level of uniformity.

The only person that knows for sure is either Gillar or Tarot, but until we hear about this we are in the midsts of conjecture, theory and speculation.

[Eanos]

Ah, and that is part of the problem. Magecraft was entirely written by Tarot, who just admitted on his vlog that the earlier magics he wrote without giving them much depth. Gillars notes in the price list reflect his interpretations of a vague system as they relate to the tools and since they are just short notes, potentially are misleading in the wider context of magecrafting.

I agree that it doesn't specify that these items need recharging - but it also doesn't specify that they don't. We do know that the water needs recharging, and why would that be unless it is neutralising something. I would compare it to quenching a sword - why would you need to do that unless you've added energy to it, and adding energy implies that you've taken it from somewhere else ie the hammers. Now I could suggest that in fact the water is expending energy to stabilise a change in the way that you might magnetise something - which doesn't take energy from the magnet, so we are just speculating.

We could probably create a helpdesk ticket to resolve this but to be honest I doubt it would be very well received