Ghost Trials (Clyde)

[Nivel]

“Oh..Well I don’t know that much but she is the goddess of Visions and I think she might be the mother to the women that live on that island, in the same way that Harameus is the one who birthed the pycons.” Nivel hesitantly explained. She was only starting to get an interest in deities beyond the one that created her. Nivel couldn’t fathom just how many powerful beings resided in Mizahar and she wanted to know as many as she could before her time on earth was over. Gathering more knowledge on the subject of religion was also a part of being a good knight, or at least it was to Nivel.

Going back to working on her shield she focused more on stiffening and evening it out. She kneaded it down carefully and meticulously with her thoughts like a sculptor would do with his or her hands. It was a painfully boring process and after only a tic of doing it in carful succession, did she break and start doing it in random areas just to make things less stagnant. She worked away at it until Clyde spoke up with another question.

In stark contrast to Clyde, Nivel was relieved to be doing something different. She didn’t make it to apparent other than a tiny sight of relief, she didn’t want to seem rude after asking him to practice in the first place. Though the word Sahova sent a tiny spark of recognition into her Nexus but it’s origin was even more obscure that Mura. Based on what Clyde had said she could only assume it was a city of magic, which would explain why it sounded so familiar.

“Oh that is quite interesting” Nivel tried to play coy but her ears perked straight up at the mention of a magic book. “Would you mind if I took a look at that book of yours?”
Being affiliated with the order, The pycon had far more access to literature than most of the people of Mizahar but Books on magic were still a rarity. She was certain her new friend Clyde would let her look at it but she felt bad for having little to exchange him for.
“I’m not sure I have much to offer you in the way of books though. I do read quite a bit, but I get my books from the Archive and those books are restricted to only squires and knights.”

Credit for Boxcode goes to Estrellir Konrath

[Clyde Sullins]

Clyde didn't quite follow all that Nivel said, as he wasn't familiar with Harameus. Apparently though, according to the pycon, he was the god that had fathered there race. The bit about the god of visions seemed vaguely familiar, but he wasn't sure if he was familiar with that given deity.

Then again he'd heard of quite a few in passing or met those marked by them, and tended not to recall them well.

When she next asked for permission to see the book, after playing and being disinterested, he had to fight a smile. He knew he had her interest, and that hers was but a non-subtle attempt at getting information from him without appearing to value it.

It was an interrogation and negotiation technique Clyde had used enough times, and one he was well familiar with.

Clyde let a frown cover his face, one of concentration not anger, as if he was deep in thought.

“Mmm... That'd be tricky. See the thing with books is, if I let you see it, you've gained the same as if you had the book in your permanent possession. There is no difference then when dealing with books between lending you the book, and giving it to you.”

“As a businessman, that would be sorely devaluing my work to just give it away. I spent time and energy in making it. I had to do research, had to study the magic, had to do a great deal of work to gain the knowledge I put down in it. For me to just give that knowledge away... It would be to say all of that work was worthless.”

“Plus, no offense, but that would be a great deal of trust I'd be showing in you. We've only just met, how do I know what you'd do with the knowledge? You could use it for bad reasons. Or, just as bad from my perspective, you could give away the books secrets to any who asked, and then I'd never sell another copy.”

“Surely you see why it'd be a great folly to just GIVE away the knowledge held within, without knowing you or how you'd use it, or if you'd go about freely profligating my words.”

Clyde paused for a moment, letting out a sigh, and gazing down at the shield he'd spread over Cha. He'd still not yet learned how to exude shielding straight out of Cha, and so still couldn't directly use that magic through her. He'd learned to do so with most of his other personal magics, but not shielding.

“Knowledge for knowledge is one thing, but freely giving knowledge to someone I've just met, you see what I mean right?”

“Then again, if I was convinced to trust you with my secrets, I suppose there are other things beyond the book I'd know. I wrote down some of what I'd learned, but I'm sure there are things I didn't think to put down, that I learned in my time studying Reimancy.”

Clyde absentmindedly began to trace a finger across Cha, as if he was painting with it a invisible symbol, his mind straying to Glyphing..

[Nivel]

Nivel remained quiet while Clyde talked about his book and why he couldn’t simply lend it to her. having grown up with pycons the idea of not sharing information seemed odd to her and maybe even a little selfish. After listening to the words coming out of his mouth she understood his reasoning and couldn’t really think of a suitable retort. her head slumped down in defeat but she figured she would just have to find other outlets for knowledge.

Then he gave Nivel a glimmer of hope that if she could prove herself trustworthy he would share his book with her and even hinted at other facets of knowledge. Her ears couldn’t help but flap in interest at the prospect and even her tails slithered up to gaze at the man.

“Oh, well I can assure you I’ve very trust worthy” Nivel said with confidence “I’m with the order after all and with good standing at that. I’m sure if you asked one of the knights they would give me a recommendation and then I could perhaps purchase the book from you?”
She hoped the book wasn’t a particularly expensive one, being in the knight hood paid mostly in clay but she did have a bid of mizas from doing odd jobs here and there.
“I obviously wouldn’t be able to purchase your book now since I don’t have any knights with me and I usually keep my money in my storage shoe.”
Nivel bought a pair of shoes because they looked like they would make a good bed, but she obviously only needed the one so the other had to serve some purpose. As for friends of the knight hood, Nivel’s former patron knight came to mind right away. The women was strange and mysterious but was still well respected by most in the order. The only ones that seemed to distrust her were ones that hated mages and Nivel had a feeling that Clyde didn’t fall into that category.

Credit for Boxcode goes to Estrellir Konrath

[Clyde Sullins]

Clyde let a smile cross his face as Nivel professed her trustworthiness, and offered to get a knight to give a word of recommendation.

“No offense, but if you weren't trustworthy, would you really say otherwise? I'd think you rather crazy if you openly admitted that you weren't trustworthy, should you not be. You can trust a honest man to say he is honest, but so can you trust a dishonest one to say the same.”

Letting the smile fade a bit, Clyde became a bit more serious, as he logically picked apart Nivel's offer as a butcher might pick apart a freshly slaughtered calf. He didn't do it in a angry or energetic manner, more as if it was something he was simply doing and didn't feel strongly about.

Like said butcher cutting apart his 243rd calf, all roughly the same job.

“That being said, having the word of another in the knight's order is similarly problematic. Think about it logically. If a person not of the order, such as myself, asked a member of the order if you or any other squire was trusthworthy... If they weren't and such a blight upon the order truly existed, would they ever openly admit it to an outsider? ”

Shaking his head, Clyde made his answer clear.

“Of course not. They'd I don't doubt deal with it in their own way, perhaps either attempt to have them removed from the order or trained up, but they'd never openly admit a squires failings to an outsider, would they? And even the knights themselves are only people, and people aren't perfect, no more than squires.”

“So then, how could I trust even a reference from a member of the order, with such a problem as that? Words are only words after all, not a True Promise. Words are too often broken and recanted when convenience arises. I've seen it many a time. A man promises one thing, and then goes about doing another. Perhaps you can see why when dealing with such a topic as dangerous as magical knowledge, powerful magical knowledge, I'd be careful in how I let it go, and not trust anything less than a True Oath.”

Clyde didn't specifically mention a Grand Oath, but he did bring attention to his words when he said True Promise and True Oath, and it would likely be obvious to the pycon that when he said these words he wasn't just using a random phrase, but was referring to a specific thing. It would be up to Nivel to question him on what he meant, if anything specific, when he said this.

“As for money, I don't give away magical knowledge for something as common as money. I give it to those who will use it well, who are worthy of it. Give, not sell. Magic isn't something to be sold on a street corner like a sweet bun.”

Clyde broke off his speech, waving for Nivel to come closer, as if taking him inside of his confidence for the moment.

“But come, while I perhaps can't share my full knowledge, perhaps I can help in some smaller way. Tell me, what element of Reimancy can you use? And what types of spells have you attempted so far? Give me the details, the how they were done, and perhaps I can see something that would aid you.”

[Nivel]

“Oh” Nivel said in defeat, she couldn’t muster much else to say since clyde certainly had a point. How exactly could he be expected to take Nivel or one of her friends words. Even if they were knights they could have easily just been be a charlatan posing as a knight in the eyes of Clyde. She tried to think of some way to convince him but she was still drawing a blank. This man was harder to convince than anyone she had meet before.

When the tall folk’s smile faded and he started talking about the knights in more detail Nivel couldn’t help but be a bit irked. She could tell by his logic that he didn’t have the highest opinion of the knights to begin with. In Nivel’s nexus the knights would never be dishonest unless completely necessary, so clyde’s logic was fundamentally flawed.
“But that’s just not…” Nivel began to protest but Clyde continued to speak and the pycon didn’t want to interrupt until he was done. She knew it wasn’t very knightly to assume something about someone before they finished what they had to say.

Then Clyde mentioned making oaths, as if the only way he would let her have the book was if she made a grand oath. To the pycon, It was a silly notion that she would have to make a divine oath like the one knights had to make to the windoak in order to get a simple book. He obviously wouldn’t know about this tightly held secret but what other kind of oath could he be referring to.
“What do you mean by an oath?” Nivel asked hesitantly, the pycon was very confused with this entire situation but she was still willing to hear him out even if he was wasn’t making much sense.

“My only element is air, I haven’t done much with it other than shaping my res and transmuting it into an element.” Nivel was a little lacking in self confidence as she explained her lack of skills. Though she knew that clyde wanted more information than what she had given him, So she continued.
“I usually just focus on the feeling of res to conjure it and I um… imagine the res turning into wind.” She found the words hard to articulate, To Nivel magic wasn’t really for a science but an intuitive art. “Is that what you mean?”.

OocI'm really sorry for the late reply

Credit for Boxcode goes to Estrellir Konrath

[Clyde Sullins]

Clyde had to be careful in his words, and what he chose to say. He didn't want to make it too clear how he felt, but neither did he want to lie.

Likewise he wanted to lead Nivel in certain ways, without it being too clear that he was the one pulling the strings and leading him in such a manner.

Of course, it never occurred to him that Nivel might know of grand oaths, nor that the order used them. Besides on Sahova, he'd never knowingly been to a place that used them at all commonly, or that many even had heard of them.

“Don't misunderstand, I don't think as such about the entire knighthood, but they are but people, and by that nature they are no more perfect than any other. There will always be bad elements as compared to the rest, at least by some definition of bad. It might simply be an overly ambitious person, or an overly violent person, who while perhaps fitting into the order wouldn't have the restraint needed to make a good mage.”

“Can you tell me you've never met a squire or knight who, while perhaps good as a knight with sword and mundane limits, would perhaps not make a good mage?”

“I've lived as long as I have by being conservative. And so even if it is only a small element of the greater group, I still must be wary when dealing with something such as magic, for fear of what it might be used for in the wrong hands. Not bad hands, perhaps, but the wrong hands.”

When he asked of the oath he meant, Clyde knew it was time to explain that bit. Often explaining an oath was a complicated thing, since it wasn't a simple thing to explain by its very nature to one that had never seen it.

“The only oath that matters. A True Oath. A Grand Oath. I've made them before, and with some things, they are the only true means of confirming trust. If one is a trustworthy person, and plans to keep their word anyway, it wouldn't make a difference. But then, I suppose a dishonest person wouldn't sign such an agreement, since they know it'd stop them from doing as they wish to.”

Turning however to Reimancy, Clyde progressed on to considering Nivel's words and his past actions in Reimancy.

Air was Nivel's element, which had been Clyde's second.

“Mmm... Yes, it certainly seems from your words that you've room to improve. However... A few questions. One, have you heard of gestures or incantations, and do you use them? And two, do you know of attraction, and do you use it? Perhaps if you tell me what you know of these, I could better see where you need to go.”

[Nivel]

Nivel hated to admit it but she did think of Knights as being above the the usual weaknesses of the general public. The more she talked with Clyde the more she wondered if that was really the correct way of thinking. She knew that all the squires were just people with flaws and weakness like everyone else but the idea made her uncomfortable. The pycon could feel herself becoming angry at Clyde but didn’t completely understand why.

“But the people who seek to become knights do so to uphold honour, keep the peace and defend the weak. How can they not be seen as trustworthy…” She said with barely restrained defence. She was being stubborn at this point but she couldn’t help it.

“I think anyone in the order could be a mage..” Her voice cracked a bit at the response. She knew plenty of squires that would make terrible mages but she simply couldn’t say that about her fellow squires and knights. It felt like a betrayal and Nivel swore an oath, she felt obligated to Honour their names.
Then it dawned on her that she was only proving Clyde’s point.
“Actually there are a few that could show a bit more …um restraint…but they’re all good people. I’m sure with proper instruction and guidance they could be great mages… in time.” Nivel was frustrated with how unconvincing she sounded.

“!..” She wanted to confidently turn down his oath but hesitated as the last part of his speech seeped in. Was she really untrustworthy if she was unable to take another oath? No she couldn’t be, She had only room for one oath to live by. Another question entered her nexus, how could a mortal even make an oath. Only gods could do this as far as she knew, not that she could share this information. She did the only thing she could think to do, brush it off.
“How is it that you can make a true oath or even a grand oath? I don’t know of any magic that can do that..” She questioned in the least abrasive way she could muster. “Grand Oaths aren’t something to joke about. They’re serious business.”

“My father taught me a few of those, but I know far more gestures than incantations. I was taught both in equal measure but I had far more fun practicing gestures so I guess I forgot most of the incantations I was taught. So far I’ve only used gestures for Reimancy to control the movement of my res.” She felt a touch guilty for forgetting some of her fathers lessons, but at the same time she knew they were a thing of preference. If incantations didn’t work as well for her than it wasn’t really a detriment to her practice.
“I haven’t learned attraction yet but Sera Grey told me she would be teaching me that skill very soon.”

“Sooo…there are ghosts…that we could meet.” She mumbled. She wasn’t bored with the conversation but pycon’s aren’t known for their patience.

Credit for Boxcode goes to Estrellir Konrath

[Clyde Sullins]

Clyde spoke with a cold logic, not with malice or hate. His words had a tendency to make a odd sense, and to be quite compelling, often even making people question things they'd once held as assured. He poked and prodded, made small motions, not openly challenging or making large leaps but subtle shifts and movements in directions.

Then again, Clyde could also at times run on with his speech, and get caught up in his own line of thinking. It was a habit he was working to fix, but he wasn't to the point where he had no flaws in his arguments and persuasion.

Speaking was his true arena, perhaps even more so than magic, and it was a small wonder at times he didn't use hypnotism. If he ever did learn the magic, the outcome could quite likely be bad. Though whether for Clyde or those he spoke to, it was uncertain.

Though it was tricky with clay people, Clyde could observe the pycon's features and expressions, and at times even a hint of the emotions attached to them. Sometimes it was but a flicker, something felt and then suppressed. But it was there. He saw a small flicker of something... Annoyance? Anger? Something perhaps akin to those. Was it at Clyde? Was the pycon feeling it at himself and his own preconceptions, as Clyde picked at them? Possible, but Clyde wasn't sure which or if even either.

Clyde answered the next question after taking a pause to draw breath, breaking the conversation a bit for effect.

“I'm sure most do. But do all? As I said, they are but people. And even the best of people have hints of other things. Anger. Self interest. Wants. Desires. Are they all truly free of such base, normal feelings and things? Do they not have them, or do they suppress them? That is a key difference.”

“For something suppressed can eventually break free, and fall. As a mage, you should know that better than any other. Overgiving, sweet whispers, they can be suppressed, but never gotten rid of when deep enough in magic. And these same people, these people perhaps suppressing these mundane feelings and needs, met with these drives such as overgiving. Facing both at once, it would not be an easy thing.”

These words and discussion of overgiving and sweetwhispers would perhaps hint at Clyde's deeper knowledge of magic and personal magic, greater than the average initiate or novice mage would have, but not clearly show it. It was after all something one could learn from books and study, not just by undergoing the topic as any skilled mage would have.

It didn't take a master observer to notice the pycon's voice, the lack of conviction in the words and the uncertainty as her voice cracked.

Clyde nodded and smiled for a moment as the pycon accepted his point, and finally admitted the failing of some squires.

A warm feeling of contentment, and perhaps smugness, settled into his stomach for a moment, at the words, and at his own genius. He'd quite inadvertently cornered the pycon in there verbal combat, giving him no out. It hadn't been planned, nor intended, but it had been done. He could either deny Clyde's words, and prove Clyde's point, or accept them and still confirm his point. The warm smug feeling in his gut was only lessened by the fact that the tactic hadn't been intended or planned.

However he noted it, and knew he'd use it again while interrogating or persuading someone.

“Even good people, with the best of intentions, can make poor decisions, or end in outcomes that are not good. It takes more than just good intentions to be a mage, at least a good one. It takes mental power, clarity of thought, restraint, and other equally important things. Not all of which can be taught. I can say use a magic like this, at this time, but rote teaching and rules don't work when a moment outside what is expected occurs. Then they must fall on there-self, their instincts and inner being, and in that moment those failings would lead to... Bad things.”

“Magic is not black and white. There is no right or wrong choice. Sometimes the good choice can lead to as much harm as the bad. Pushing yourself to save a person one day, only to overgive and go mad, and thus cause far more harm than having done nothing initially. Just doing ones best, or having good intentions, isn't enough.”

Instead of answering his questions earlier however, the pycon pushed on and diverted the subject.

“Glyphing. Have you heard of it? A skilled enough user, with the proper needed materials, and the know how, can make a Grand Oath. I've made them before. Glyphing is a specialty of mine. You'd be amazed at what can be done with it, with the proper skills. I suppose if I did teach you, I'd include tutelage in that as well, as its a good base skill for a personal mage...”

Clyde let this lead off, giving the pycon a moment to ponder it before driving on.

From the pycon's words it was clear to Clyde the Reimancy teacher wasn't too skilled, or didn't take the long term use into account. He himself taught attraction first thing, as it was the most useful and least djed costly.

“Odd... I'd think that'd be one of the first things a Reimancy teacher would teach. No offense to your teacher, but its not the way I'd do it... Your teacher, they'd be a knight also then?”

“Do you know of the concept of stagnation? Its where things go bad, barren, or lesser, by only intermingling with their self. No new outside source is brought in, and eventually things are lost and peter out. I can't help that think that perhaps by having knights teach knights, and not having anyone outside the order teach or give knowledge, some stagnation isn't occurring... Surely an infusion of outside knowledge and experience would be good at times, and even of use to the knighthood as a whole, more so than simply repeating the lessons of the generation before, with a bit being lost each time.”

[Nivel]

“Not easy, but not impossible to conquer like anything else. All a person needs is drive and faith in themselves and they can fight through their natural tendencies.” Like an animal backed into a corner Nivel fought back with more confidence than before. She didn’t want to accept the doubt clyde was filling her nexus with and hardened into a stone of resolve. The pycon didn’t want it to show but she was feeling a touch of discontent with Clyde for his insinuations, even if they did make sense.
“I think people are stronger than you realize.” It wasn’t very noticeable but her clay stiffened up with determination but she made sure to soften her voice do it didn’t sound like a personal attack. “we may have to agree to disagree in this area.”

“In the same way you don’t know me, I don’t really know you enough to make a Grand Oath.” Nivel responded carefully, she felt like making a grand oath would lose it’s meaning if she were to perform one with someone she hadn’t formed a strong personal relationship with, like the one she had with the Order. At the same time she didn’t want to out right cause Clyde offence since she desired the friendship of fellow mages.
“I don’t think your trying to trick me, I just think grand oaths are sacred and not to be taken lightly.” Nivel added quickly in hopes that it would cushion the blow of her previous statements.

“Yes my Teacher is a Knight with many responsibilities, She planned to teach me attraction as soon as possible but an important mission came up and she had to investigate it. She should be back any day and will make sure to teach me.” What Clyde implied wasn’t too far off, Sera Grey wasn’t the most skilled at reimancy but she was still Nivel’s mentor and Friend. The pycon wished her former Patron was more present but she understood that she was a busy women and probably had another Squire to worry about.

“Pyconian’s call that becoming stoned, it’s considered a horrible fate. I’m glad to have learned many things from many different people, I’ll make sure that others do the same.” Nivel misinterpreted what Clyde was getting at, being a pycon she barely understood the concept of being drawn to familiarity. To her Clyde was showing concern for a rare disease that might show up amongst the knights rather than criticizing their social structure.

“I Know! Instead of a ghost I’ll look for a mage not of the order who can teach me when Sera Grey isn’t around” Nivel proclaimed before running and jumping off the ledge of the counter “Thank you for the talk but I have to start my hunt right away” She called back as she scurried for the door on her new mission. OocSorry for the long wait, and for the weakness of this post. You can stop Nivel or we can just wrap this post up. Ps. I couldn't think of a better word than stoned.

Credit for Boxcode goes to Estrellir Konrath

[Clyde Sullins]

Clyde could tell that at least some of his message, indirect as it was, was getting through to the pycon. He could also tell that it was perhaps time to stop pressing. A good interrogator knew when to press for info, and when to give their target room to breath.

It seemed it was not too different twisting and manipulating people, attempting to edit and change many notions they held. But as any Chaon would know, one didn't make great changes overnight. One planted a seed, nurtured it, let it grow and sprout, and planted new seeds. Eventually the plant would burst forth and overtake the edifice it had been planted upon.

Perhaps then Clyde was less of an interrogator in this instance, and more of a gardener.

He was also coming to understand pycon better, how they thought and understood things. Mostly this occurred due to miscommunications and things said and responded to in odd ways, ways different than if he'd been speaking to a human. Clyde wasn't skilled in anthropology either, the study of other peoples and cultures, but perhaps he was getting a small taste of the skill in dealing with a pycon.

He could tell some of the things had been lost on the clay person, and weren't effective, while other things were understood but in unintended ways.

Clyde put on a smile and shook his head, grinning at the pycon as it raced off. He shouted some words after it, but more as a parting comment and not as something meant to make them stop and return. He'd done all he could for one day, and would need to try again in the future.

“You do realize Nivel, that I am a mage not of a the order, who is around and could teach you when your knight isn't?”

OOC: That's fine, we can end it here. Until next time.