Eypharian Race Rewrite

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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Rosela on February 3rd, 2015, 11:06 pm

7/17/15 Edit: I realized that I made a mistake in the placement of this thread, which should have been in the Lore Workshop forum, as I did all of my article development in this thread. Moderators, please move this thread there if you see fit.

~

I've been asked to rewrite/expand the Eypharian race lore. The current lore isn't getting completely tossed out the window, but the main issue requiring the mass rewrite currently going on is that much of the regional lore is scattered through several articles, is generally incomplete, and an awful lot of it borrows heavily from the history of the Jewish people in ancient Egypt.

Regarding the Eypharians, much of what's currently there will remain the same. The essence of the race will note change - they'll still be the same snobby, multi-armed racists we all know and love. It's the peripheral information that'll mostly be getting clarified and added to.

Here are a couple issues that I'd like to address with the rewrite. These are just some things that have come up in very overview-level discussion on the rewrite, and some issues may easily get nixed during the process:
  1. Basic knowledge of genetics, based on djed
  2. Clarification on pheromones
  3. Rewritten history with the Benshira
  4. Actual origin of race's split with humanity, as opposed to only legend
  5. How did societal structures survive the Valterrian
  6. 4 vs 6 arms implications

I'm sure a hundred more questions will come up during the rewrite. However, if anyone out there has any questions they'd like to see clarified, I would absolutely make sure they're included.

Outline WIP: (based on organization of the existing lore, still not done filling it out)
  • History - almost-full rewrite
    • Race Origins
      • Legend of divine origin
      • Resulting racial split with other desert races
    • Pre-Valterrian
      • What is currently known, what is not
      • Early society/industry/scientific knowledge
      • Relationships with other races
      • Annexation by Alahea
    • Valterrian
      • How much was destroyed
      • How did they survive
    • Post-Valterrian
      • Rebuilding Ahnatep
      • Recreating the old society
      • What was preserved/lost
      • Relationships with other races
  • Biology - greatly expanded
    • Physical Appearance
      • Common skin tone, hair color, eye color
      • Arms
      • Makeup and fashion
      • Pheromones
        • How they work
        • Ancient uses
        • Current uses/considerations
    • Genetics
      • Summary of current understanding
        • Basis in djed
        • Pure blood is desirable, too pure brings mutations
        • 6-arms is most pure, 4-arms less
        • Society established to manage bloodlines
      • Origins of research
      • Notable 'breakthrough' study
      • Loss of information during Valterrian
      • State of continued research
    • Reproduction
      • Pregnancies are similar to that of humans
      • Occasional complications due to extra arms
      • Enforcement of bloodlines - need to register with bloodline society
      • 'Return to Ahnatep' mentality
    • Psychology
      • Strict social hierarchy
      • Dedication to being better (than your neighbors)
      • Play hard, work hard enough to maintain status
  • Culture - tweaked/expanded
    • Language
      • History
      • Basic sounds
      • High Arumenic
      • Use of hands in conversation
    • Names
    • Family Structure
      • Societal requirements due to gene pool
      • Familial housing trends
      • Tutoring requirements among the wealthy
      • House slaves
    • Industry
      • Common respected industries
      • Gaining status through industry
      • Divide between work and play
      • Use of slavery
    • Art
      • Overview - focus on the body and grace
      • Semhu
      • Perfumery/cosmetology/jewelry
      • Weapons training
        • Training for grace vs training for skill
        • Fighting styles
    • Religion
      • Overview
      • Makutsi
      • Syna
      • Xyna
      • Sivah
      • Qalaya
  • Racial Bonuses - tweaked/expanded
    • Skill Bonus
      • Dual wielding considerations
    • Racial Knowledge - Genetics

Things I want to keep track of:
Semhu Q&A
Ahnatep Q&A
Dual Wielding Q&A
Last edited by Rosela on July 17th, 2015, 5:37 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Sayana on February 4th, 2015, 12:44 am

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Whoot! I'm happy to see the Eypharians getting some love and attention.

Although you don't have an explicit section for this, I was wondering if I could add my thoughts on Eypharian mannerisms. In this case, it's a tweak to the simple handshake but it would have a lot of social and cultural implications because of the importance of hands/arms and the caste system.


The Handshake:
Due to the very intense and regulated caste system and the fact that Eypharians have multiple pairs of arms, I figured that there would be proper etiquette for shaking hands when greeting someone. Such a handshake would involve the Eypharian with a higher status/caste to use their 'high' hand, and the Eypharian with a lower status/caste to use their 'low' hand. (This is assuming that Eypharians' arms are roughly layered one on top of each other in pairs).

This would be a way of constantly enforcing the caste system upon greetings between Eypharians. Should two Eypharians be of an equal caste, they would both use their mid hands (if they both have 6 arms) or they would both use their high hands (if one or both have 4 arms).


4-6 Arm Implications:
My personal thoughts are that since all Eypharians regard 2-armed folk with disdain, there would be a tendency for 6-armed Eypharians to regard 4-armed Eypharians as lessors. Also, since you're doing so much biology, you may want to figure out what would happen if a 4-armed Eyph and a 6-armed Eyph had a child. Would it be a deformity or would it work like recessive genes (similar to Eyph-human pairing)?


Those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for such a bold undertaking. =)
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Emissary on February 4th, 2015, 3:54 am

I wanted to ask about the hierarchy in the current race page. As it sits, some the ranks are very reminiscent of Egypt (Hawks, Jackals, Sunbearers etc). Will these names remain the same?

Secondly, since Eypharians go so far for appearance would a section on fashion be off topic? Cosmetics?
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Rosela on February 4th, 2015, 2:16 pm

Handshake
I like this idea. I've added a section related to High Arumenic for social traditions dealing with multiple arms. Little things like greetings would enforce the social hierarchy that those with more arms can perform the 'full' and more socially superior greetings.

4 vs 6 Arms
With the race knowing about biology and a theirs being a culture so reliant on hierarchies, I'll definitely be including fully fleshed out sections on both and where they overlap.

Names of the Hierarchy
I hadn't thought of this, but you're right, I think they do need to be changed. The majority of the names seem to focus on either animals (jackal, foxes, etc) or environmental factors (sun-bringers, houses of the four winds). The latter, I can understand. They're in a very inhospitable place where the environment is not something to be trifled with. Animals though? They've never struck me as a very animal-loving society beyond what social status showing off a pet can bring. What they truly 'worship' is themselves. I've always thought Gilded was a great name for one of the ranks because it speaks so clearly of where their values lie. I was thinking maybe three tiers of titles:
  1. Money/style/beauty titles - these will be the nobility, people who are in the upper ranks based on family and wealth
  2. Environmental - these will be the more 'function' members, such as advisors and members of the guard
  3. Animals - these positions will be insults and low members of society, such as non-Eypharian members of the city, servants, and slaves
However, now that I write this (I don't want to delete it after spending all that time thinking about it), I wonder if this hierarchy wouldn't be better suited in the city lore, instead of the race. Because it's a very racially monotonous city, I think it can get a little fuzzy in terms of what relates specifically to the city and what relates to the race. The divide may be that things that would relate to any race in the city, such as hierarchies and fashion, may be better suited to the city lore. There will be a solid summary here, since they strongly influence social attitudes and dressing for four/six arms requires some considerations, but I think the bulk of that should go in the Ahnatep rewrite.
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Hirem on February 4th, 2015, 6:36 pm

Very happy to see the expert taking this topic on. :)

Here are some questions I have regarding their psychology and how it affects their society. Feel free to draw your own conclusions regarding them. Is there such a thing as a person that works too hard? Conversely, would Eypharians look down upon hedonists with nothing to offer society? What do they view as most important, the glory of their race or the glory of the individual? Are the young taught to serve the higher-ups, such as the Pressorah, because they are entitled to authority thanks to the divinity of their bloodline, or because they represent the height of Eypharian achievement? Or are the young taught instead to view their social betters as obstacles to remove on their own path to greatness? Since the Eypharians believe they are descended from the gods, how do they view the actual gods? Favoured sponsors? Cousins? Also, the Eypharians possess a classist, very immobile society despite their belief in individual excellence. Are those lower in the hierarchy meant to serve society to the best of their ability, or are they encouraged to shoot as high as they possibly can? How do nobles view social climbers? When travelling abroad, how do Eypharians recognize social distinctions and who is superior? Who's the head of the Eypharian family? Can Eypharians easily integrate into foreign societies that emphasize social mobility?

Regarding the enslavement of the Benshira, (surprise surprise I have a Benshira comment!) I'd like to see greater clarification on what exactly this meant for both races. How many Benshira were brought to the Eypharian state as slaves? What role did they play in Eypharian society? Were they just labourers, or were some Benshira brought up to the noble caste as courtiers, servants, and concubines? How have the Eypharians adjusted to the loss of their favourite slave race? Are there some Benshira populations that remain in captivity? Has Eypharian society been impacted at all by the presence of Benshira worship and culture in their cities?

I'd also like to hear your ideas about the Eypharian relationship with the Chaktawe. They both view the land as their native home, yet they seem to have a better relationship than one might expect. Do they view each other as neighbours best left alone? Mutual partners?
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Rosela on February 4th, 2015, 9:00 pm

Ok, lots of questions! I'll try to address them individually, since they cover a lot of areas:

Is there such a thing as a person that works too hard? Conversely, would Eypharians look down upon hedonists with nothing to offer society?
I think a workaholic would be appreciated, if their work was towards something great. Someone who toils in mediocrity would be just sad. On the other hand, if one can afford to be a hedonist, I don't think they'd have a problem with it. There's just a couple things they value in order to bring glory on oneself: fame, money, and bloodlines. A low-bred bum who tries to mooch off of others would obviously be ostracized.

What do they view as most important, the glory of their race or the glory of the individual?
With the new addition on genetics, and the existing prominence of racism, a duty to race would have to come first.

Are the young taught to serve the higher-ups, such as the Pressorah, because they are entitled to authority thanks to the divinity of their bloodline, or because they represent the height of Eypharian achievement? Or are the young taught instead to view their social betters as obstacles to remove on their own path to greatness?
I think this is getting a little into what each PC prefers, but on the whole, I imagine that the Pressorah is considered worthy of authority due to bloodline, if not the quality of her rule. Those immediately above oneself on the social ladder can be a rung or an obstacle, depending on the person.

Since the Eypharians believe they are descended from the gods, how do they view the actual gods?
The existing lore has them not very religious, more opportunistic than faithful, which I'm only going to tweak. I don't think they're so pompous as to consider the gods cousins, but 'favored sponsors' is closer I think. They'll do the most natural thing - worship the god that is closest to their daily lives.

Also, the Eypharians possess a classist, very immobile society despite their belief in individual excellence. Are those lower in the hierarchy meant to serve society to the best of their ability, or are they encouraged to shoot as high as they possibly can? How do nobles view social climbers?
Everyone is expected to serve in their own way, and be great at it. There's a lot of emphasis on family and bloodlines, so there's only a select few positions one could attain simply by working hard. I think changing your class isn't really a goal here, it's more bringing glory on your name. A jeweler may never be among the Gilded, but you can bet he's trying to outclass every other jeweler in the city. As for social climbers, it's likely that anyone would be viewed as a 'hot, young upstart' until their own position was threatened.

When travelling abroad, how do Eypharians recognize social distinctions and who is superior?
Up to the person, and how well they acclimate to other cultures. They could just as easily latch onto someone who appears to be a born leader, or they could see a vacuum and try to fill it themselves.

Who's the head of the Eypharian family?
I'm going to have a section on how families live together that described this. I think those wealthy enough to spread out to multiple homes will do so, leaving the head of the house up to the matriarch or patriarch living there. Poorer families will house together, making the head the oldest living among them. The unofficial head of the family would likely always even out to either the eldest, or a very strong leader elsewhere up the chain. Eypharians being the way they are though, I'm sure intra-family politics will happen a lot so defining an across-the-board family head would be limiting.

Can Eypharians easily integrate into foreign societies that emphasize social mobility?
I think this would be something else that would depend on the PC. They may find it freeing and inspiring, or they may find it does nothing but allow all the 'riff raff' in.

The Benshira stuff is a little up in the air right now, as their history is getting looked at for whether it'll get changed. I don't know whether it will or not, only that it's being looked at. I'll definitely explain the Eypharians' relationship with their Eyktolian neighbors though.

Phew! I think that answers everything. Good questions though, these will all get weaved into the drafts for their relevant sections when we get to that stage. Thanks for the feedback!
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Sayana on February 4th, 2015, 9:08 pm

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I have more thoughts on mannerisms, biology, and dual wielding / multitasking. These are ideas that I use currently for Sayana (because there was no mention to it originally). Feel free to take these ideas, edit them, or not use them at all.

Other "Arm" Mannerisms:
1) Naming of Arms/Hands: Often Eypharians refer to their arms/hands as "high", "low", and "mid". Sometimes words like "upper" and "lower" are also referred to distinguish them. ((OOC aside: this brings new meaning to a "high" five))

2) Dining: Higher classes often prefer to use only their high arms to limit the impression of ‘flailing’. Grace and elegance is highly regarded in the Eypharian culture and should not be compromised due to extra arms. Other classes tend to use their high and mid arms (eg. multiple forks to hold a piece of meat while cutting it, one hand on the cup/glass, one hand on a napkin to delicately wipe one’s mouth). This often leads to multiple utensils and increased room at the table per person (as elbow room is in higher demand).

3) Hugs/Embraces: The standard custom is right over left (right arms go high while left arms go low) so that arms don’t get tangled/interwined with each other. This also avoids awkwardness when embracing someone with fewer arms (eg 4 vs 6).

Biology of Arms
I'm sure you've got a lot of it figured out yourself (since you plan to write so intensely about the biology) but here is the way I interpret the layout of arms. Each set of arms is stacked on top of each other, however, they are staggered (horizontally) to fit more snugly. For a 6-armed Eypharian, the highs and lows are staggered back slightly while the mids are staggered forwards slightly. This results in an elegant neckline of two cascading shoulders on each side with the lows tucked out of the way. As a result, most 6-armed Eypharians have a preference to use their mid hands/arms since they are slightly forwards and thus these are usually the dominant ones.

A side note on reproduction: sometimes Eypharian pregnancies are more difficult than others because the arms of the baby don't always fold down properly.

A side note on body mass: Eypharians (especially 6-armed ones) typically have a much higher body mass than humans due to their extra limbs. For example the mass of an arm is typically 5% (females) to 5.7% (males) of the total weight of a typical human. Therefore, a female 6-armed Eypharian would weigh an extra 20% of their "human" body mass. (This would also give a much higher center of gravity but it's a small tidbit that's only relevant for acrobatics, dancing, and combat)

Multi-tasking and Dual Wield
Despite having multiple arms to do different tasks, Eypharians are not perfect multi-taskers. Just like it can be rather challenging to humans to pat their head and rub their stomach at the same time, Eypharians can only multi-task as far as their brain is able to. Simple tasks that involve all their hands/arms doing the same thing (like carrying several objects, clapping at the same time, waving all their arms at once) are very manageable. Also, if only one or two hands are moving at once while the others are relatively still then it is also manageable (eg. hammering nails with one hand + holding the nail with another hand + holding up a flier to a bulletin board with two hands). However, once arms begin to do significantly different things that require mental concentration, it can require a lot of practice. ((An OOC human example is learning to play the drumset with both arms and both legs moving at different times and to different patterns))

Those using dual wield should be aware of the limits of one's brain, but may resort to blind muscle memory for well practiced moves.
Personal Aside: I just read the Dual Wield Q&A and I think it's kind of odd that you'd use one side or the other side. I always tend to use Sayana's arms in pairs, often her high arms doing something fun and flary, her mids doing something useful, and her lows doing something discrete or secretive. However, I don't want to ruffle existing lore. In order of preference/dominance, Sayana's hands are: mid-right, mid-left, highs/lows (more task dependent rather than having a dominant limb). But like said, I'm flexible.

Perfumery Quote:
"They say that Eypharians like to use scents and perfumes because they are seductive and sensuous. But the real reason is they have three times as many sweaty armpits!"


I hope some of these ideas and concepts help. Don't feel obligated to use any and feel free to tweak them to fit your own vision.
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Rosela on February 4th, 2015, 10:09 pm

All those are great idea, Sayana, keep em coming!

I just submitted the proposal, so once that's accepted, I'll start going through the outline, writing each piece in turn. There's quite a bit there, but there's a lot that we're keeping in the existing lore, so it shouldn't be so bad...
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Postby Rosela on February 11th, 2015, 2:44 am

Shoulder Anatomy

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Ok, so Sayana (and Aventis) got me thinking about the anatomy of the shoulders and I just had to stop the history rewrite to check it out. What follows is me essentially typing as I think. If you'd like to see my final decision, skip to the big header at the bottom.

There's a couple of considerations, and I think determining the inner anatomy will ultimately decide the arrangement of the shoulders. I'm going to focus on the anatomy of 6 arms, since they're the most complicated.

ImageAs an alternative to altering the normal shoulder system, I looked at the only other place in the human body where multiple joints hook into one - the wrist. The metatarsals connect to the carpals, 8 little nugget bones that connect to the radius and ulna in the arm. While this facilitates connecting 5 metatarsals to one joint, it does make it difficult to make the joint a ball joint. Additionally, the network of tendons that would be required to make it work would make the entire shoulder exponentially more difficult.

So, as we're building on the normal shoulder layout, there's three important skeletal features - the shoulder blade/scapula, the glenoid cavity (where the ball joint of the humerus fits in), and the pectoral muscles. We ultimately will have three humeruses on each side, meaning we need three glenoid cavities. There's two ways to accomplish this:
  1. Three small, overlapping scapulas, each with their own glenoid cavity
  2. A single, large scapula that has multiple cavities
Option 1: This would require a lot of musculature and would really beef up the pecs, shoulders, and upper back of Eypharians, to the point where it would really be noticeable. It would, however, give us the advantage of being able to control each shoulder individually.

Option 2: This option would require minimal new bone structures, and only vertical extensions onto the musculature, resulting in a less bulky area overall. As a sacrifice though, we loose the ability to move each shoulder individually - a shrug would move all shoulders at once.

Given the positives and negatives of each option, I believe option 2, requiring a single scapula with multiple glenoid cavities, is the best option. Eypharians with 4 arms will simply be missing their lowest glenoid cavities (and obviously the rest of the lower arms).

The next point of order on the arms is the arrangement of the joints - straight vertical, straight horizontal, set at a diagonal, or staggered back and forth.

The biggest problem I see with vertical is that the topmost shoulder must then be set significantly further out in order to have room for the arm to hang naturally. If all three joints were set perfectly on top of one another, each of the two upper arms would have to angle outwards, resting on the top of the lower arm.

The horizontal and diagonal settings solve this issue, but would return to the issue of significantly bulking up the shoulder area with sheer width. The horizontal setting would provide additional issues with making sure each arm has adequate musculature from the back and front.

This leaves us with staggered arrangement. It would widen the shoulders, but less so than the other arrangements, while still being vertical enough that the standard musculature will still work. This therefore seems the best option.

Final Shoulder Structure


The joint of the shoulder will have a single scapula/shoulder blade with three, staggered joints for each shoulder. The staggering will have the arrangement of the first and third joints set forward and the middle set slightly back.

Points such an arrangement will require adding to the visible physical features:
  • Eypharians typically have very solid and developed upper back and pectoral muscles, as there is simply more muscle there than the standard two-armed being.
  • Eypharians will appear to be broader of shoulder than other species, and given the societal preference for 6 arms, weak shoulders are seen as having weak blood.
  • 4-armed Eypharians will simply be missing the lowest arm with the top furthest forward and the next set back.
  • While there will be additional pectoral muscles needed, there will still be a single clavicle/collarbone.
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Eypharian Race Rewrite

Postby Sayana on February 11th, 2015, 2:59 am

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Hey, I love how you researched all that and took a good look at other examples of anatomy with multiple 'limb-like' attributes.

One question about the layout of the arms. If the middle arms are set backwards and the high and low arms are set forwards, would the middle arms have difficulty reaching forwards? I currently picture the high and low arms blocking the middle arms essentially, due to the staggering and trying to keep the arms as a whole rather compact.

I initially thought the highs and lows would be set back (so that the middle arms could still reach forwards but maybe not reach backwards so well). However, if the anatomy works better the other way around, then by all means do that. I just might need to rethink which hands will be Sayana's dominant ones.
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