On Falyndar

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On Falyndar

Postby Schism on January 10th, 2013, 2:00 am

Thank you again, Naeya. I'd like to read more from players who have been around to see Falyndar over time too. I know I didn't come onto the site until a few years after Mizahar's launch date. :P But that's individual choice, so oh well, haha.
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On Falyndar

Postby Anchor on January 26th, 2013, 2:27 am

I am very late replying to this, but I still want to join the conversation (if there's still one going on) because I feel like a lot of this relates to the Suvan too.

People like playing a character that they have in mind, but the location is generally less solid in a lot of cases I find. It is good to have a strong focus on one type of race, after all that's what builds culture, but perhaps you could throw out a bone to those who don't necessarily want to be that particular race? It might feel like giving in a bit, but you can still encourage the specific race while also giving the non-specifics something to do. You've mentioned ways of getting there already, maybe give them something specific to do while they're there? Things like a foreign quarter with its own small locale for people to do? I'm just tossing ideas out there, I don't actually know much about Falyndar.

Also, since Cascade and I are currently modding for Black Rock, I feel like we should collaborate a bit to link our domains a tad more strongly. Right now each city feels a bit disconnected from the rest, and I'd like to change that.
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On Falyndar

Postby Verilian on January 26th, 2013, 3:28 am

I haven't read any post in this thread, so its possible someone may have already touched on this.. but I'm going to say it anyway. I recently made a Dhani. He had Caihya's gnosis. I talked to you about him. I was very excited... And then Cayenne left the site. After that, I looked around a little, and I didn't see a whole lot of development or storyteller activity. Granted, you are the only one, so its hard, but from a player perspective I don't care about that. All I saw was that Zinrah and the Jungle (I didn't look all that much at the Myrian city) didn't have tons of vibrant locations like many of the popular cities, and I didn't see any quests or anything to entice me into staying. I'll admit the real reason I backed out of playing there was Cayenne leaving, because I didn't want to play in a region with only one ST. And believe me, I am not trying to criticize you or tell you you're doing a bad job. You're alone, so naturally you are spread thin... Sadly, as a player that means I am turned off. So my suggestion is to do something to entice people to play there. Start a quest. I've seen people create brand new PCs just so they can get into an exciting quest. Work on development, but I think the best thing you could do is a quest. If you make it, people will come.
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On Falyndar

Postby Verilian on January 26th, 2013, 3:29 am

Oh.. and I don't feel that it is necessary to cater to the other races. Myrians, kelvic, and dhani are all awesome races. There is plenty to do with those three.
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On Falyndar

Postby Anchor on January 26th, 2013, 3:40 am

True, but not everyone wants to be one of those three. And some of those who don't want to be a Myrian or Kelvic or Dhani might still want to play in Falyndar. I'm just saying, it'd be nice for them to have something to do, no matter how small. It's been mentioned that those who come bearing metal weapons to Taloba are welcome because of the lack of such weapons, and that's a good instance where a foreigner can still be important in a city. Even if the role is small, it's just nice to have something for people to do.

EDIT: I'm not saying cater to anyone at all, I'm just saying that, for those who are accepted into the domain for whatever reason, there should be something there for them to do.
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Postby Gossamer on January 26th, 2013, 5:20 pm

Since others have finally broached the subject I was waiting for someone else to bring up, I'll throw my opinion in here. Falyandar is not populated because Falyndar is not developed. There's nothing user friendly about it and there's nothing terribly realistic about it.

Lets look at Taloba for example. Here's the link map.

The Gate
The Tattooing Stalls
The Pet Stalls
The Livestock Dealers
The Pottery Stalls
The Fruit Stands
The Fish Stalls
The Butcheries
The Tower of Bones
Scout's Roost

It has food places. They don't even have prices. It has a tattoo place. It has a tower and a place to get pets and a gate. Where do people live, train and worship? This is after THREE years of being in game. There's also a butterfly forest, but I don't count that because I suggested it, practically wrote it, and did the photoshop work on it.

Where are the homes, where can visitors stay, where does anyone train, recreate, and have fun? Limey is working on those aspects now. The OOC info thread is so lacking its not even funny. There's really nothing there to get players to want to create Myrians let alone want to play in Falyndar.

This is the city profile link:

City Profile :
Taloba


Image


For information on Taloba, visit its lore page.


Nice, huh? It gives basic information, but it really doesn't help players roleplay. There has never been a city calendar and there's never been any news, events or major quests. Grades take months to get done - sometimes upwards of a year - and the problem is its not open for other races. Riverfall, for example, would be dead if I didn't allow humans and others besides Akalak to play there. I'm not saying Taloba should be open for play for everyone, but I think FAlyndar should be.

Now.. lets talk about this Dhani blockade. There are 15,000 Myrians and 200 or so Dhani in Zinrah. And the Myrians hate the Dhani so badly that they march all that way around that lake (Because no where in the lore does it say there's actually boats for them - no where) and stand guard duty around an underground city. They basically stand shoulder to shoulder in a circle and let no Dhani out without killing them...

Wha?????? Seriously? That's a long way to march through the jungle just for guard duty. That's probably close to a thousand miles if not high hundreds of miles.. and jungle travel too. It makes no sense to me why these two cultures would even rub shoulders and why if the Myrians hate the Dhani so much why they just haven't went into the nests and eradicated them. They have sheer numbers on their side.

I honestly think people stay away from Falyndar as residents because it just makes no sense when you start reading into it, and has a very unfriendly hostile vibe to it, even if you are Myrian.

Now, how do we solve this? Its fairly easy. Develop Taloba further. Do more locations and flesh out whats there. Stop this senseless Dhani hate. I'm sure the Myrians took a huge hit on the Djed storm too so their numbers are down and the jungles are suffering a bit. No one ever announced anything really there, so we can play fast and loose with it. Show it some moderator support. Perhaps eventually found a human settlement at Syka, and I think the Jungle would be off and running. The Jungle wilds, for example, should have a hundred locations if not more of great RP sites... ruins galore, and tons and tons of adventure and threadseeds. It simply doesn't.

We can evolve and advance Falyndar. And we can do that staying slightly true or giving nods to the original designs. But we shouldn't also be afraid to eliminate the things that make it unfriendly to everyone - things that exclude players instead of include them. And it needs to have some moderators that really really love players and make this happen. We need less of the knuckleheaded 'this is tradition!' that perpetuate the hate sorts and more innovative creative thinkers that expand the great aspects that should be there.

Image

Now lets talk about Syka. Syka was supposed to be a human settlement so the jungle wilds could be played in by humans and others as well. The developer of Falyndar made it a stone rock pillar... yea just a rock. So that one location only had to be made and they didn't have to moderate. How do I know that? I was told that time in and time out by the developer.

So yea.. that's another possibility in the future. Found a human settlement there to open up more roleplay. Villages thrive in jungles - they do on earth - so why wouldn't they in Falyndar if we founded one or two small ones open to all players? Having the Myrians as neighbors always ensures conflict.

Anyhow, Schism - you asked. I'm a little surprised you had to ask and just didn't know all this already. I think you did, but were looking for some miracle answers that simply just don't exist. The whole truth is you have to be nice to players. You have to throw out the welcome mat and make playing in Falyndar easy for them. Remember, PLAYING easily in Falyndar doesn't mean that survival is easy. It just means that getting started, having information, having support and moderation all that is there. The players don't want easy lifestyles and kind gentle lives. They want adventure or they wouldn't be here on Mizahar.

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On Falyndar

Postby Schism on January 27th, 2013, 3:31 am

The discussion is always open, Anchor. I was using the thread as an idea on how to guide my development a bit beyond, "Hmm, having a location like this would be cool for Zinrah!" and then crossing my fingers hoping someone will use it. I like that you mention the idea of particularity – and this ties into V's input too – that even though Zinrah is probably associated with constrictor Dhani, say a "racial capital" what was there as a foundation was really the cultural model of how they act, and I've been furthering that. I've not yet thought of specifics as to what perks a Dhani might have sticking around in Zinrah though, so ideas will be storming.

Sorry to hear about the gnosis bit, V. Regarding the rest, Limey is on board and Anchor and Cascade are bringing some life to Black Rock… :P so hopefully we can expect some great improvements region wide. The foundations definitely give Falyndar a unique flare, something Limey and I agree is best kept, and so now we get to spin it in a new fashion. Expect cool things. :D I still don't see it necessary to cater to the other races. Myrians, man, they won the place and still have a rough time, but that's life in the jungle. Opening the region up in a reasonable fashion is definitely something to look at. The Dhani and Myrians definitely aren't ready to yield to each other. I mean, technically they are at a truce, haha!

And back to Anchor, your edit note is especially powerful. The question I'm asking, and have been asking in this thread is, "All right, what sorts of roles do you – player base – want to see?" And then if it's something we can do – which most ideas will be possible, it's a matter of placement in the design of Falyndar – then we want to gladly accommodate.

Like, okay, so Falyndar comes off as this impossibly dangerous place more than anywhere else for whatever the reason – cannibals! – and we like that, it's cool (or at least I do, I think Limey smiles at the thought of screams and blood…anyway, I digress). But now we want to, hmm, not transition into a new phase of Falyndar's existence in the world, but paint the details of its image. Where is that mental smith who arms the Myrian army really from and how does he feel about everything? You give a whole new perspective to the Myrian world as a tradesman on the inside making a fine living, for one example (one very good example if anyone is into the smithing skills… :) ).

Lastly,
  • The goal of this thread is to identify development opportunities and understand the outside perspective of Falyndar. True, Falyndar is not developed to its fullest, hence a thread questioning what people would like to see developed.
  • There's nothing friendly about cannibals or snakes, and these peoples by their nature don't intend on being friendly without good reason. There's actually nothing more realistic than Falyndar, the wide spread embodiment of Caiyha's domain as a goddess.
  • This thread, once again, is not about the past, but rather how to move forward. Falyndar and Cyphrus are two vastly different regions and have few points of criteria in which they can be fairly compared.
  • Zinrah's placement on the map is incorrect, and should be further north near the top of the F on the cities map. Myrians are required to serve in the army for three years. Part of this is jungle patrols, hunting, and keeping he Dhani pinned in Zinrah. There's a truce, the jungle is still dangerous and needs to be managed, and the Myrians make a quick buck as it is (or lose their lives as quickly if they go on unsuspecting).
  • The blockade is alive. Myrian "fangs" – composed of some 40+ Myrians, their mounts, and items – patrol the perimeter of Zinrah and outward from its radius to the ruins. There are traps, basic snares to death traps, all placed for the Dhani. Its purpose is a) a taunt to the Dhani who are not safe outside their hole, more so than they would be in the wilds as it is, and b) a preventative measure to keep the Dhani from growing to the point where they could challenge the Myrians, even in a position where they could damage the Myrian hold over the region and welcome other invaders – whoever they might be.
  • Giant tigers can carry a lot around. Temporary camps and thin trails through the Falyndar wilderness guide the patrols and make settling for the night simple. The Myrian Tigers are most likely the apex predator of Falyndar…which the Myrians ride.
  • Caiyha made a deal with Myri. Myrians don't enter Zinrah; Dhani do not enter Taloba. Violation of this contract entails…bad things, namely for the Dhani. Caiyha wouldn't watch her daughter's children perish undefended, and Myri isn't going to tolerate Dhani filth on her turf. Senseless hate is divine politics, and mortals are but tools – as they always have been.
  • From the Myrian perspective, they basically don't want these snakes slithering around their bathhouses like packs of roaches. Dhani can breed that fast, and that's where this tension arises from. It's a complex dynamic worthy of a separate discussion in its own right.
  • As for Dhani, life in the jungle is tough, and now people are purposely out to kill them on top of it. Things just got that much harder to do, small things too.
  • It's a hostile region. Mizahar as a whole is supposed to be. The overarching theme is post-apocalypse, no? This is how people are surviving after the Valterrian, even 500 years later, and if it works, why not?
  • The blockade was destroyed in the djed storm, absolutely annihilated. Roughly 40 days later, the blockade was restored to its full strength, the tigers reined in, and the traps set up more than previously. The Myrians are efficient, highly efficient, at what they do. If they can't wipe the Dhani out as per contract, then they'll make the Dhani suffer all they can short of starving or killing them. It goes back to Caiyha and Myri. It's how things have been for centuries. It's a norm to maintain.
  • Syka is a testament of what the Myrians are capable of. Any settlement not approved by them (namely Myri) will be treated thusly: inspect, retreat, come back armed to the teeth and purge. Seeing there is no need for people settling in their home (which would mean they are only draining the Myrian resources and getting too comfortable in a land that's not theirs), it really doesn't make sense under that Myrian mentality.
  • Suppose people settle around some rare mineral vein. As a Myrian, that vein belongs to you, and you don't need to trade for it. People claiming it for themselves is theft.
  • Regarding other settlements and locations like "ruins," an excerpt from Taloba's history: "The Valterrian devastated the outlying villages, and destroyed a portion of Taloba. Once the cataclysm was over, Taloba's inhabitants emerged and began again, rebuilding and searching for survivors. Some ruins still remain as a testament and a reminder of the power of the pantheon, although the buildings have been rebuilt." One word: Cataclysm.
  • Cayenne purposely developed Falyndar's foundations for a reason, regardless as how unplayable as some see it (a judgment, I must note, that is far from the truth, and is a sign of people only taking Falyndar for its face value, its IN CHARACTER representation). Limey and I are here to make sure you're not overplaying the region or getting mauled in an instant. This idea that Falyndar is so closed and impossible is just so…wrong. As far as changing a Founder's purposeful and well-reasoned region is concerned, I would suggest against it. Falyndar is unique to the game, and just needs to bloom into its full image, rather than be remade entirely thus altering the past and everything said about it. The Dhani and Myrians, by example, are not going to forgive each other overnight.
  • Regarding human settlements in the jungle: How many times has it been noted that establishing a village elsewhere in the world, even in Sylira, is near impossible? The proposed suggestion is to now build a settlement, out of the blue, with mere lumber as local and accessible resource, in the deadliest, thickest, most thriving wilderness terrain in the entire world of Mizahar, a region guarded and constantly observed by cannibalistic masters of war Myrians, and the Goddess-Queen Myri, who dedicated her life to uniting her people and securing Falyndar solely for them and no other, is unlikely. The previous statement doesn't even acknowledge the details of the wilderness, that which is more difficult to traverse or settle than any of the other climates, a land where the ground is a swamp and you have no support to build large objects on (unless one were to dare deeper into the Myrian territory, guaranteed slaughter), or the carnivorous flora and fauna, where plants are armed to paralyze and melt, or massive cats that stalk the jungles, quick to make prey of the unaware traveler. The statement ignores the idea of another race well settled in the region who have their own idealistic dream of overcoming this impossible Myrian force and claiming Falyndar for Siku. I must digress. I know, I tried asking Cayenne for a settlement like this long ago, and was lectured similarly. It's just not what Falyndar is about. There are other places in the world like that. This thread is asking how to further what is here as a foundation, not to make it as accessible as any other domain. It's not "how do I get more players here?" It's, "How do I enhance this region for those who want the rawness of the world before them" in a manner that is sensible and true to its image, the idea Cayenne conceived to Mizahar and stood by. Sure, she might not be around, but there was a reason in making Falyndar the way it is, and if we won't ever know for sure, we had best try to found out. The framework of the region is here, now it needs some utility and a face.

Red, Razkar, Imass, Naeya, Siiri, Anchor, V, and Goss's notes are far from miracles. They're actually pretty tangible, for the practical purpose of reading them and gathering some data, and all inputs are appreciated. It's good practice I say this too, remember that we're always available for insights on Falyndar (that would be Limey, Anchor, Cascade and I). if there are any doubts, ask us, we know what's up and are glad to pass on that information.

So we're gathering the ideas, big pictures, of what a lot of Falyndar's development should be directed at, and it's not at all a surprise. I guess this is my fault somehow, but I was curious about specifics, such as specific locations or thread opportunities? I'm not as concerned with the big region wide stuff because that's easy to come by. A lot of the local color is going to come from smaller events, like PCs Pelham and Salar are currently exploring the nest's mentality towards its denizens in Saving Your own Skins. Falyndar oriented PC prospects especially, do tune in, please and thank you. :) For instance, things on Zinrah's link map are going to need to be developed, but what additions would you the player like to see or think could be altered? Does this keep true to the domain image, and how? Finally, how to execute it in detail? But yes, feel free to come back to this thread as a drawing board if you get any ideas!
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On Falyndar

Postby Gossamer on January 27th, 2013, 3:46 am

One thing you need to remember in Falyndar is that as an AS, you cannot dictate the directives of Goddesses and Gods, and absolutely every bit of your development must be guided and approved. Caiyha, is in fact, one of my Goddesses. There are no written dictates of bargains and I agreed to nothing of that in any of the past. I wrote her gnosis and created her witches. She is not bound to Falyndar any moreso than she's bound to anywhere else that there are flora and fauna and feral areas. She is no more partial to jungle as she is to tundra.

The second thing you need to remember in Falyndar is that if you, as an AS, don't run threads that move events forward in a tangible fashion IC to promote the realism, events don't truly happen in the minds of players. None of the things you say have happened have actually happened in thread, Schism, in terms of blockades being reestablished etc. So basically your a 'do as I say' instead of a 'lets run these events as threads' type mod which undermines your authority as an AS. You have to RP out events. You have to establish events that players can rp out on their own if you don't have time to moderate.

But being an ST is about hands on. It's not about outlining events in a bullet system and leaving them to become lore. It's about fully embracing the RP. If people aren't flocking to do so, then there's a fundamental issue with how you do things and that might need to be addressed.

That is, I feel, the essence of what is wrong in this region. Nothing is done IC. Everything is heresay at the dictates of an Storyteller and is subject to change from storyteller to storyteller. It stagnates like fouled pond water.

Also, perhaps its best if you let Limey speak for himself. :)
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On Falyndar

Postby Phoenix on January 27th, 2013, 4:06 am

Image

I'm using the new boxcode that Sliver made for me- Isn't it pretty?!

Anyway. I haven't read every minute detail in this thread, and I'm not going to pretend that I have. I just want to throw my two cents in on the overall subject of overseeing an area.

I've moved up from an AS all the way to RS. I've done every job, I've had to work hard at every level of Storyteller-hood for extended amounts of time and the thing that I got out of it all is that you need to be there for the players. You can't pop your head in once a month and expect life to be booming within your city. You can't. It doesn't work that way. Believe it or not, players notice which ST's are active and which aren't and, like anyone with a brain, they tend to avoid the inactive areas.

I know this first hand, because more than once real life has sucker punched me in the face and I could do little more than answer PM's, let alone spend some TLC in Wind Reach. My player base dwindled down to almost nothing. My own PC there wasn't even active (for obvious reasons). I had to work really, really hard to prove to the players that I was there, present and attentive.

How did I do this? Well, I posted lots of OOC's. Even when no one was responding, I posted EVERYTHING I did in an OOC announcement. I asked the players (existant or not) what they would like to see, their thoughts and ideas, what they thought was lacking or could use better descriptions etc etc. It's about THEM and as soon as you make it obviously about them, then they will come a'runnin'.

Example: Lhavit. As soon as I became RS, I scooted my little butt over to that poor city and I sat down right in the middle and started playing with things. I posted a new OOC, I posted brand new news threads and removed all the ugly gray names from things. I talked to the players that had stuck around and asked them what THEY wanted. Within HOURS I had players PMing me and responding to my OOC announcement with ideas and concerns. And now look at it! It's not exactly Riverfall or Zeltiva, but it's more active than it was before.

What I'm basically trying to say is, all the mumbo-jumbo, huge plans and re-writes aside, it's about the players. And thus far, Falyndar has had little to no one-on-one TLC with players. They're mostly ignored. My Myrian was there for a while and I got supremely bored because I wasn't offered any kind of moderated thread or anything cool or fun. The first thing I do when I see a new Inartan PC is send them a hello PM. It takes like two minutes and it puts you in their face like "HELLO IM HERE HI LOOK AT ME IM A STORYTELLER HI HI". Yeah, you're gonna get annoying questions that way, but annoying questions is probably 1/3 of being an ST (hehe).

I think before you start planning threads and events and blah blah blah you need to connect with the people and become approachable and PRESENT. Be noticeable, even if it is only to the people in your city.

Note that I said approachable, Ryan. You have a tendency to joke sarcastically, and not everyone sees it as a joke. So keep that in mind. From me to you. You're welcome.

Anyway.. My really long two cents... When I get around to reading this thread in depth (I'm on my phone, and some of the posts are getting cut off on the sides and it makes it impossible to read) I might have more specific things to say.

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On Falyndar

Postby Imass on January 27th, 2013, 4:09 am

I just want to make a quick comment on the human settlement thing... Just because it is near impossible doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Like Goss said things need to played out IC. Just let the humans come, let them try, and let them fail all IC. I can see it being a very awesome story arc for a couples seasons in the jungle.

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