Improve Mizahar's Lore - Can You Do It Better? Prove It.

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Improve Mizahar's Lore - Can You Do It Better? Prove It.

Postby Gossamer on October 1st, 2013, 5:56 pm

Check your domain flora and fauna lists. If you are out in the wilds, you are not out there away from any civilization unless you have tons of Wilderness Survival - which your character does not - because you would not make it alive. The Unforgiven has been described as very Himalayan like so all the species would be alpine or high mountain. You might find trees in the subalpine zone but above the treeline is what most of The Unforgiven consists of. There would be minimal big fish though trout and minnows, things like sculpin, would be prominent. You can always just ASK an ST in your region what would be around. As a trained biologist I can tell you that you would not find many pine, spruce or fur except along the lower elevations and coastline due to the severe elevation. Along some ridgelines and peaks there would be oxygen issues as well. You did not state where you were in the Unforgiven. You also have no fishing skill or just a bunch of things with 1 point in them which means you pretty much can't function on your own in the Wilderness and shouldn't be out there.
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Postby Timshel on October 1st, 2013, 6:01 pm

Quick question:

How do we decide who is "right"? Should we voice our opinions here, make another thread, take a vote, or...?

For example, I thought the edit Tallis made way back in June seemed like a nice clarification, but it doesn't look like the original post in the race list has been edited yet. Was it decided that he was wrong?
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Postby Gossamer on October 1st, 2013, 6:10 pm

I'm making edits as I get time. There are a lot of things ahead of this thread on the priority list, namely the HD and the day to day workings. I ask a lot of the ST's for their opinions, and once changes are made, then the posts are deleted as the edits are made. The ones that are remaining have questionable content and are not always acceptable.
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Postby Bolivar on October 2nd, 2013, 12:44 am

Hope this doesn't come off as too bossy but perhaps you can change Sylira's lore to reflect that they have a god now.

Last time I checked it said that their god was dead and his only remnants was the Windoak.

Perhaps making Sylir's name on the god list not red but a link to the current npc made god would be cool.

Not sure if the npc's notes said he attain godhood during the djed storm but that would be great also.

Personally I think Miza is fine with people filling in the blanks in some areas but regulating our information is all on us (and of course the people able to edit the wiki pages)
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Postby Ball on October 2nd, 2013, 11:59 am

Boli I don't think it's common knowledge right now, hence the non-update?
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As Ball is getting closer and closer to maxing out Pyken as a skill, I would like to request that in places where Ball is not doing enough to constitute Pyken XP if Pyken technique lores could be issued instead.

Examples of proper XP level for Pyken would be: Ball developing or refining his technique by adding new thing against an actual moving target, not a dummy.

The use of basic skills alone are not enough to accomplish XP at Ball's current level of Pyken.

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Postby Wrenmae on October 6th, 2013, 5:30 pm

<blockquote>Flipping the blade between his fingers, Bob bounced on the toes of his feet as the Yukman stumbled towards him. The chest cavity seemed to be overflowing with small stones, and he focused on the neck as his best chance at incapacitating the creature. He jumped to the side as it swung out for him, and put his full weight behind the swing that sliced nearly through the dirty, distorted neck. What passed for the Yukman's spine refused to break under the swing, and Bob barely managed to whip the dagger back out before the Yukman fell.</blockquote>


This is an example of Master-level actions. As with Competent, exactly how the blade is being used is specified, with exact detail. He is successful in his attack here, though experiences minor difficulty in doing what he intended.



I changed Master-Level actions to Expert. As the very next block quote specifies it is a master level action, I'm assuming that this one was supposed to be expert


<blockquote>Bob twirled the dagger on his finger, leisurely picking out his target from the mass of stampeding Yukman. Eying one, he flipped the dagger on its end and flung it towards the herd. The largest - the one he'd been aiming for - fell with a devastated moan, Bob's dagger perfectly thrust through its eye.</blockquote>


Last and least, this is an example of godmodding. At any level, even Expert, this shot is simply too much. Throwing daggers and using them to stab are technically under the same skill, but just because Bob is an Expert at the dagger doesn't mean he knows how to turn it into a long-range weapon. Hitting a swiftly moving target among a group of them with a perfect, deadly shot is impossible short of divine intervention. Even if Bob is an Expert with the dagger, use your judgement as to what is actually, physically possible when you suspect godmodding.



For this I need to ask if Expert is what was meant. The text says at any level, even expert, this shot is too much. Was it meant to say, any level, even Master? Are we saying that this shot is impossible for even a master to make, or just for an expert? The phrasing is a little unclear...if it means a Master couldn't as well, then that should be reflected as Master rather than Expert
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Postby Syveris on October 20th, 2013, 5:44 pm

Just an expansion on Matthew's post, since this was also something I noticed.

This are other cities I found without the forum link:
  • Abura
  • Denval
  • Xy
  • Denvali (if flashbacks are still allowed in forum)

Also, the link on Lisnar lore directs to the Zeltiva forum and Kalinor's link directs to a non-existent forum.
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Postby Gossamer on October 20th, 2013, 6:09 pm

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Thanks guys. Those are easy fixes. All you need to do is go to the city in the main game, the one without a forum link, and look at that WHOLE forum URL when you are looking over the entire city forum... lets use Riverfall as an example.

http://www.mizahar.com/forums/riverfall-f39.html

You are looking at the URL to get the forum number. SOOOOO Riverfall's Forum number is 39. See it in there? Now go back to the wiki article on Riverfall in the Lore section of the website... a different tab open at the same time comes in handy and edit it to add the forum tag in. How?

The tag goes at the very top of the wiki article on the city in question, so edit the entire article by hitting the edit button on the side bar and type:

{{Forum|#}}

In RF's case it would be {{Forum|39}} - which is how its already listed and edited in the wiki.

Then hit save. BOOM. The appropriate tag comes up comes up. So if you have free time, go through and add forum links to all those lacking forum tags. The only reason they don't have tags is that they aren't my cities or I haven't had time to get to them or another avid wiki user. This is your chance to make a difference and add to the wiki. If you don't have wiki permissions, ask for them in the appropriate news around the campfire thread.

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Postby Syveris on October 20th, 2013, 7:23 pm

The forum links were added, just letting you know so you can delete the posts if you want.

The only one I didn't change was Lisnar, as I think is still a work in progress and so I couldn't find the corresponding forum.
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Postby Rayage on October 28th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Here is a suggested edit to the Shielding Article based on a conversation with Gossamer on Shielding a while ago in chat... (of which I wasnt in, but lurking)

Chat Log:
Shielding! :
(01:16:37) Eridanus: what's the defence of shielding against hypnotism T_T
(01:25:35) Gossamer: not the way you shield ero
(01:25:38) Gossamer: eri
(01:25:44) Gossamer: Which is mostly wrong
(01:26:34) Gossamer: im doing a video on it
(01:26:46) ChatBot: Scythil has been logged out (Timeout).
(01:26:48) Eridanus: my new one is to protect against stuff like fire
(01:26:50) Eridanus: and swords
(01:26:54) Gossamer: pretty much using you as a "what not to wear"
(01:27:15) Gossamer: how do you task against sword?
(01:27:49) Gossamer: how technicslly do you task that?
(01:28:06) Gossamer: im asking a master sheilder...You should know
(01:28:21) Eridanus: the method of impact?
(01:28:36) Eridanus: pressure/force of an attack from a sword
(01:28:39) Gossamer: this is what I mean.....You have no clue

...

(01:29:24) Gossamer: You have to task against something with something....You have done it and continue to do it all wrong and count to the lore

...

(01:31:13) Eridanus: so you cant use the sword to task a shield against a sword?
(01:31:27) Gossamer: That you can't answer a simple shielding 101 question?
(01:31:39) Eridanus: well that too
(01:31:44) Gossamer: no you cant
(01:32:28) Gossamer: You can task against things but it's not like you are. and it's very clear in the lore
(01:33:56) Gossamer: you take a generic sword...it won't block every sword everywhere from hitting a shield
(01:34:07) Eridanus: so... weave in steel to task against swords, or steel objects?
(01:34:33) Gossamer: You need a sliver of metal from a sword.....but it will only.block that kind of metal...
(01:34:55) Gossamer: not steel not bronze not izudian not iron....
(01:35:39) Gossamer: You can't block all bladed unless you later and task against all types of metal.....casting time is a factor


Edit- Thank you Clyde with providing with me with more accurate logs to further change the lore in question.

Clyde's Logs about Shielding! :
Clyde_Sullins: Alright, it is in two parts. First is, when you weave a weapon into a shield, to task it to block it, what happens to it? Does it just vanish? Slowly get weaved in? What?

Gossamer: the weapon isn't harmed

Gossamer: You need a sliver or filling from it

Clyde_Sullins: And what all would it be able to block? For example, I weave in a steel dagger? Would it only be able to block steel daggers? What about a iron dagger? Or a steel sword? Or would it block all bladed weapons regardless of material? Or only daggers specifically?

Clyde_Sullins: Ah, that makes more sense... A sliver... Sort of like you are weaving it in like a thread into a blanket... Ah...

Clyde_Sullins: For weapon tasking, what all would it be able to block? For example, I weave in a steel dagger? Would it only be able to block steel daggers? What about a iron dagger? Or a steel sword? Or would it block all bladed weapons regardless of material? Or only daggers specifically?

Gossamer: steel daggers

Gossamer: or maybe a steel kitchen knife

Clyde_Sullins: Then what is that reference on the sheilding ore about tasking it to block all blunt or projectile weapons? Or maybe I misunderstood that...

Gossamer: You have to complexly task it to do that

Clyde_Sullins: So then if you wanted to block all bladed weapons specifically... How would that work? What would that take?

Gossamer: lots of time lots of materials lots of weapons

Clyde_Sullins: So then... Say I weaved in a steel dagger, and a iron longsword. What all would that block? *last question*

Gossamer: steel and iron daggers, and steel and iron longsword

Clyde_Sullins: and nothing else... Hmmm... So the material only needs to be in once, it is the type of weapon that must be different each time..

Gossamer: per shield

---

Clyde_Sullins: Though that begs to question, how do you divide weapons up. Is it per size, like one tiny, one small, one medium, and one large blade, and all bases are covered? Or would it be more fine than that.

Gossamer: lets try this....

Gossamer: kovac is a shielder

Gossamer: hes afraid of aidara kicking his butt

Gossamer: aidara owns three pairs of shoes

Gossamer: leather pumps in a smoking hot red

Gossamer: cowboy boots in snakeskin...

Gossamer: and cheap canvas flipflops

Gossamer: what things does kovac need to task his shield with so he doesnt get her foot rearranging is colon?

Clyde_Sullins: Leather... Snakeskin... And canvas... Plus... each type of shoes?

Gossamer: exactly

Gossamer: but he could use a snakeskin pump and a canvas boot

Gossamer: to fudge a bit

Gossamer: then he could use leather flip flops

Gossamer: And he's covered

Gossamer: its thing and material

Clyde_Sullins: So he needs a piece of each specific material, plus a piece of each specific shoe type... Though sometimes two can overlap, so you get a shoe type and material as one tasking, but for that instance it would take 3 taskings to block out her shoes.

Gossamer: if course she could ambush him with a killer plastic pair of jimmychos

Gossamer: or go at him barefoot

Clyde_Sullins: Sorry, the metaphor ends there. I mean alloys. What about alloys of metal mixed, like bronze? Or say a iron/bronze mix?

Clyde_Sullins: Would you need to specifically block that alloy, or could you also block the individual ingredients? And what if you only block one ingredient in the alloy?

Clyde_Sullins: Would you need to specifically block that alloy, or could you also block the individual ingredients? And what if you only block one ingredient in the alloy?

Gossamer: depends on how you wove

Clyde_Sullins: So... If a bronze sword comes at you, and you blocked copper and tin(makes bronze) it would block. Or instead you could specifically block bronze.

Gossamer: nope I won't allow that

Gossamer: its bronze or nothing

Gossamer: ..That's metagaming

Clyde_Sullins: Oh, okay. So you must block the specific alloy. I could see someone making some crazy mix of metals just to petch with a shielder.


So you task against materials, not concepts like 'bladed weapons'. You can block bladed weapons by tasking against the material they are made from. This has been bugging me for a while, because it says you can block against bladed, blunt, projectile weapons by just 'tasking' against them and doesn't really go into the logic of it leading to misuse.


Edit- So to add onto my edit, its not only the material you need to block against, but the thing as well.

Below is the specific section of lore that I want to edit right now:

Weapons blocking capabilities are common weaves for competent shielders on up and each specific type of weapons needs to be woven into the shield. For example, a shielder can weave a shield that they either form around them (which takes time and is complex) that blocks ‘blunt weapons’ like maces or ‘projectiles’ like arrows but not both unless they stack two completely different shields on top of each other. Far more practical would be a shielded leather vest that is not only djed absorbing but secondarily tasked with the purpose of ‘stopping bladed weapons’ such as swords and daggers. A tasked shield that’s primary purpose is to stop weapons will only stop a weapon that is wielded at a skill beneath the level of the shielder’s shielding skill. For example, a shielder wearing a vest that blocks ‘projectiles’ like arrows who cast his or her shield at level 50 in shielding cannot stop a level 51 archer from piercing their shields. They will, however, easily stop a level 15 archer’s arrows.


Below in red writing are the edits I made:

Weapons blocking capabilities are common weaves for competent shielders on up but each specific type of material and object needs to be woven into the shield. For example, a shielder can weave a shield that they either form around them (which takes time and is complex) that blocks weapons made of steel or of iron but not both unless they stack two completely different shields on top of each other. Similarly in the example above, if both objects were bladed weapons like a sword and dagger, the shields would not block against an archers arrow. The shields would block steel and iron swords and daggers but nothing else. Far more practical would be a shielded leather vest that is not only Djed absorbing but secondarily tasked with the purpose of ‘stopping steel swords’ such as steel is the most common crafting element. A tasked shield that’s primary purpose is to stop weapons will only stop a weapon, whose material and type is tasked for, that is wielded at a skill beneath the level of the shielder’s shielding skill. For example, a shielder wearing a shielded vest cast at level 50 that blocks against ‘steel arrows’ cannot stop a level 51 archer shooting steel arrows from piercing their shields. They will, however, easily stop a level 15 archer’s steel arrows.

So, very minimalistic, but critical to the understanding of shielding everywhere!
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