New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Wanda Endust on January 12th, 2014, 2:23 pm

If a hypnotist carries Yahal's new gnosis, would their hypnotism be rendered null and void?
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Rayage on January 12th, 2014, 2:52 pm

I would think not. The marked bearer is protected against hostile hypnotism. If you read the gnosis carefully you will also see that it does not completely cancel out hypnotism. It only prevents the mark bearer (and the surrounding things) from being manipulated to do things outside of their faith and personal beliefs.

Marked: The first mark of Yahal grants the marked with an enhanced aura, visible to anyone with Auristics, that shines with a brilliant gold radiance. This aura helps protect the marked from magic and other gnosis' that may corrupt or control in a way that would make the marked go against their beliefs and vows to Yahal. This includes defending against hypnotism, chaon, krivas and similar magics. Essentially, this aura prevents the marked from being forced to do anything that would cause harm to themselves or others unless it was something they had already chosen to do on their own. Those within the aura's radius, 10 feet, also benefit from the protection it provides. Those who are already affected by a gnosis or magic that would cause them to harm themselves or others will find these effects (of a strength equal to or less than this first gnosis mark) nullified while they are within the radius. Leaving the aura's radius however will cause the negative effects to return.


^ That is the first mark. From what I understand, or think I understand, about how the new gnosis works is that the more marks you gain from the god the higher amounts of protection you are granted from Hypnotism, etc. In the first mark it also mentions the strength of the magic has to be equal to or less than to cancel out. Note that even Champions of Yahal are still effected by Master level Hypnotism (and its still limited to 'effects that will cause them to harm themselves or others').

This theme is extended to the second mark as well were it is stated:

In addition, the favored can cleanse and effectively nullify the effects of lesser powered chaon effects, hypnotism or fear imparted by the use of krivas (effects that are meant to force the individual to cause harm to themselves or others).


So there is a clear line in where and how the effects are canceled out. At least to my understanding.

Anyways, I do not think having a mark of Ennervism will cancel the gnosis bearers magic. I am no Founder XD and do not know their intentions when reworking the gnosis. But if Im wrong Im sure a Founder will step in and correct me. No biggy. It was an interesting question.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Venser Rush on January 12th, 2014, 3:03 pm

I would think that Yahal would be very displeased if his chosen followers were to use those kinds of Magic. From what I can tell, Yahal bestows power upon his chosen in order for them to be akin to beacons of light. Someone using a craft such as Hypnotism, which is by its very nature, deceitful and harmful would not keep Yahal's favour for very long. In the end, there is always free will, and I'm likely not the best source for information based on the fact that I'm not a veteran, but yeah. Yahal seems like he'd condemn a Hypnotist.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Annalisa Marin on January 12th, 2014, 5:45 pm

I rather disagree Venser, its all in how you use the magic and for what purpose exactly. There are plenty of ways that a Hypnotist could use their powers for good, such as diffusing a brewing fight, its just that most of the people who use it use it towards nefarious ends. Actually, there is already a PC marked by Yahal and also a Hypnotist, Edreina.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Tarot on January 12th, 2014, 7:19 pm

Indeed, magic is morally neutral (unlike gnosis). I designed it to be like that from day one. While some disciplines are definitely set up in such a way that it's easier to do evil things with them, and Hypnotism is one of them, this is just a reflection of how life works, the immoral course of action often being the easier one. I can think of lots of good uses for Hypnotism, though. Mizaharian shrinks anyone? :)
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Postby Venser Rush on January 12th, 2014, 8:04 pm

I simply meant that by interpretation it would be considered evil, not by reality. All things not bestowed by a sentient, biased force, but does tangibly exist is by neutral because it has not inherited a nature. I'm of course wrong in my assumption, but it's just my personal opinion that a God would be biased. Especially towards a thing that has a far greater common usage in its negative aspects than its
positive. Sentient beings are prejudiced by nature.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Gossamer on January 12th, 2014, 8:36 pm

I am fairly sure the gods see tools as tools and don't read into them intent. It harkens back to the whole 'Are guns evil?' debate. Used right they could feed a family for a lifetime, used incorrectly they could destroy that same family.

I would always consider the gods a whole lot smarter than we are.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Gillar on January 13th, 2014, 2:56 am

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I made sure to include, a number of times, the qualifier that Ennervism only protects against certain gnosis' and hypnotism that would force one to cause harm to themselves or someone else unless they chose to do so on their own. The gnosis is a reflection of one's own faith in themselves and their own beliefs given substance. Their strength of faith and moral purity protects them from being forced to compromise their beliefs; at least as far as committing violent acts or driving others to commit them against their will.

Hypnotism in general is not frowned on by Yahal. Indeed there are many "good" and beneficial uses of hypnotism. A very strong theme found throughout the various magic disciplines is intent. This makes the magic itself, as Tarot said, neutral with the individual's intent deciding the good or evil part. In fact, those marked by Yahal could very well have and use hypnotism in ways that are beneficial to others. They could use it to support and nurture someone into doing good for themselves or others for example. I could see it being used to help combat negative thoughts and emotions in others as well.

It is only if hypnotism is used by the marked in a way similar to what the gnosis protects against that they may end up compromising their relationship with their god. Using hypnotism to force another to cause harm to themselves or someone else when it would otherwise be something they would never consider doing, would most certainly upset Yahal. Such an act opens one up to the possibility of moral corruption. When someone exercises that kind of power over another, it opens them up to all manner impure thoughts and desires. The darkness therein feeds upon itself and before they know it, the person is forever changed. That is how I envision Yahal's perspective on the use of hypnotism.
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New Yahal Gnosis vs. Hypnotism

Postby Wanda Endust on January 13th, 2014, 4:01 am



Gee, I was expecting a simple 'yes' or 'no', but this works too! Rayage and Gillar, thanks a bunch for clearing it up. After reading the lore over and over again today I realized that I would've seen the answer on my own eventually...

(I also noticed way too late that I accidentally put this in Miz Discussion instead of the Q&A.)

And the rest of the discussion brought up a couple interesting things that would be interesting to talk about IC! Anyhow, looking forward to see how folks incorporate the change.

And maybe those dirty Chaon will get knocked down a peg. Ahem.



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